Poll

In the upcoming Hot Mess Tournament, which would you prefer?

Games played on full campaigns (Dark Carnival 1-5)
21 (38.2%)
Games played on a mix of individual maps to make a campaign, a-la Witch Party? (ex. Dark Carnival 1, Death Toll 4, Sacrifice 2, Hard Rain 4)
27 (49.1%)
An option for teams to play mixed map campaigns, but if both teams don't agree, a default for a full campaign.
7 (12.7%)

Total Members Voted: 55

Voting closed: September 11, 2016, 07:52:46 pm

Author Topic: Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool  (Read 3883 times)

Rails

  • *
  • Posts: 430
  • Head Producer of Deadstops.
    • View Profile
Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool
« on: September 04, 2016, 07:52:46 pm »
Hello community. For the upcoming Hot Mess Tournament for fall 2016, an option has been proposed among the admins to alter the traditional format of gameplay for a major tournament.

Instead of playing a full campaign each week (Dark Carnival, Hard Rain) there would, instead, for all weeks of Swiss play (5) and the elimination bracket (3) on the home/away server format, be combinations of maps to constitute campaign equivalents. For example, in week 1, the map-set would be released at the start of the week as Dark Carnival 3, Hard Rain 2, Death Toll 4, Parish 2, and Detour Ahead 2. All teams would play the standard two games for home and away on that map combination. Then, at the start of week 2, the next map set would be announced, and this would continue sequentially for the duration of the tournament.

Please vote your preference above; the admin team is seeking feedback on which option the community would like to see in the tournament, so please also post below with your opinions on the benefits/detriments of each option. Please keep all feedback civil! The poll will expire a week before signups end and the final decision will be based off of feedback and resulting administrative discussion so that a final map pool is either released (or not) a week prior to signups ending.

Thank you in advance for your feedback!

-- The Hot Mess Tournament Admin Team
I look forward to this post being taken down so that you can continue running a corrupt system for a game that has less teams then I can count with one hand.

Bravo

  • *****
  • Posts: 916
  • Hi
    • View Profile
Re: Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2016, 07:58:58 pm »
option 2 seems pretty cool

Houtarou

  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2016, 08:11:15 pm »
I like #2.

But wouldn't it be very difficult to scrim specific maps of campaigns?

fig newtons

  • *
  • Posts: 1882
    • View Profile
    • configs
Re: Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2016, 08:13:02 pm »
I like #2.

But wouldn't it be very difficult to scrim specific maps of campaigns?
Good question -- we have this covered actually. We can upload a config to the servers that will auto-rotate the maps for you. So what you'll do is call the config for that week and it will take you through that week's map rotation. ez. The only challenge will be to make sure all the server admins update their servers. But we can get most of them for sure.

Pariah

  • ****
  • Posts: 301
    • View Profile
Re: Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2016, 08:23:54 pm »
Most of them isn't really going to suffice though, What about Russian, Asian and Whatever else servers? Seems to me that it's a logistical nightmare, Good luck i guess?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 08:29:35 pm by Pariah »

Friday.

  • **
  • Posts: 98
  • ㅤㅤ ㅤ ㅤㅤ ㅤ ㅤㅤ ㅤ ㅤㅤ ㅤ ㅤㅤ ㅤ
    • View Profile
Re: Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2016, 08:43:01 pm »
What about for each week along with each map set, tank and witch percentages were also set? So teams can practice for a few days with a guaranteed spawn set. Might be easy mode but might also allow for allot higher standard of play..

Cyx

  • *
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
Re: Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2016, 08:51:03 pm »
Can someone tell me some positive points about the map format?
I'm usually opposed of having RNG as a factor in a competitive game, but I'll hear some points on this.
hey.

Spirit

  • *
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Re: Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2016, 08:51:44 pm »
This really just should be optional for both teams. if it's required it seems a little ridiculous to me. Talking about the 2nd option also.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 08:55:40 pm by Spirit »

Fitz

  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2016, 06:09:40 am »
Well I thought that from the very beginning of l4d2 competitive community, the main point was to make this pretty casual game more or less competitive. So, as we are talking about competitive game and also to show you people how this 2nd option in the vote sounds for me, let me compare it with CS. Just imagine any CS major event (and l4dnation tourneys are majors in competitive l4d2 for sure) with system like that. 6 rounds on dust2, 6 rounds on train, 6 rounds on mirage, 6 rounds on cobble and 6 on cache. Imagined that? Now you probably see how rediculous it is.
And the 2nd thing is custom maps on tourneys. Comparing with CS once again, imagine CS major event with play-offs on maps from Operation Bravo. Srsly, this is far from competitive, and there are a lot of ppl in the community who dont like customs, dont know customs and dont play it. But they are forced to do it. Rly, there is CCT series for all custom maps lovers. Just let us play regular maps on regular tournaments please. And leave custom maps for CCTs.
Best regards.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 07:44:28 am by Fitz »

lastforone

  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2016, 09:57:13 am »
myself being a huge fan of custom maps, i play customs every chance i get to play one(mixes/pugs), but like fitz said, from that big ass list of custom campaigns out there, there's barely any map that would qualify to actually be called a competitive map, on top of that these maps are so badly optmized that they should never be played on a competitive level(constant fps drops etc )with few exceptions ofcourse and about mixing different chapters to create 1 map, think it might work out if done right but imho i don't think it would make any difference besides giving admins more work to do and for players more commands to execute.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 02:50:05 pm by lastforone »
"The mere realization that we are here on this blue dot in the universe, living, loving, learning, a part of a creation of unimaginable size and beauty, is what keeps me going. Breathe, and smile!"

estoopi

  • *
  • Posts: 710
    • View Profile
Re: Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2016, 10:06:49 am »
custom maps have been in nearly every tournament since 2012...  if ur still mad about it, maybe learn to adapt .


imo, considering BOT had an abundance of customs...  again, Open Road is really the only map i'm strongly interested in seeing played on acemod competitively..
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 10:08:30 am by estoopi »

skup

  • *
  • Posts: 43
    • View Profile
Re: Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2016, 10:28:32 am »
Interesting idea, I mean this game can get repetitive from time to time, but hey, we're still here, aren't we. With that in mind I'm not sure what the true added value is of a change like this. In the end we'll still play all these maps, just in a different order.

Anyway, let's say most people vote for yes, let's do this, I guess we'll need servers, which isn't a huge issue in itself, even for EU I bet there are some admins who don't mind uploading it (if that's how it works 8)). Also, please take into account, if you're going to do this, randomness can cause for a lot of frustration. Why? Because some maps are simply easier to keep your lead on (especially finales), so this would mean less exciting matches (for the player and the viewer), because there is only a slight chance of a comeback. 

So all I'm saying is, if you do this, make another post for all the design decisions need to be made, to keep shit balanced and avoid frustration. Oh, and someone has to code that shit. 8)

ALSO, you sure you wanna do this 20 days before the tournament, the testing will be minimal, which means less tweaking based off feedback, just saying dawg.

Pariah

  • ****
  • Posts: 301
    • View Profile
Re: Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2016, 11:31:59 am »
The idea sounds like one that would be great for a tournament that was hosted on one server provider, in one location (Perhaps TFPG Tournament #5!). Whether it has legitimate viability for an international tournament that will encompass multiple locations and server providers is another story entirely. To rely on external individuals to make the tournament run smoothly is always going to be a gamble. Who's to say that every server admin will want to routinely update their servers with a config each week - one that may or may not cause clashes or problems with their other configs and whatnot. Shouldn't that have been something that was taken care of ahead of time so that any problems or bugs could have been ironed out?

This leads us to the most obvious issue - What if players from a certain region, through no fault of their own, Aren't able to have servers with your map splicing config? Is the crux of this tournament going to be the reliance on a 3rd party (multiple?) or else go to lobby 5 times load map and set spawns 5 times, return to lobby 5 times and wait for all players to reconnect 5 times? Furthermore will tournament or server admins always be available day and night to sort out and problems related to the map format you want to employ? Are teams going to be punished because their regional server admins aren't online or tournament admins aren't online to solve the problem?

Other issues I can see being a problem;

- If the server crashes mid-way through a spliced campaign then how easy is it to continue where you left off? Or would teams have to start going to lobby and playing maps 1 by 1 from that point onwards?

- Have you given any thought to any realistic map sets that provide any level of decent balance? If you're going to throw different maps from various campaigns together it could definitely hinder balance. E.g If you're going to have Sacrifice as #2 - worth
2200 points in total, but then for map 4 you'll have Hard rain which is worth 1200 points in total. This just makes the tournament seem very RNG and almost completely random. Teams could win the majority of maps then lose the game simply because of uneven map scoring.

Hoernchen

  • **
  • Posts: 96
    • View Profile
Re: Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2016, 06:08:44 pm »
Custom maps is a bitch to play for players that have no time even scrimming on the default maps. I would speak different if I would still play the game 24/7 but yeah just want to play some relaxed game on the default maps and not searching for the right path in the custom map while I play against some hardcore zombiekiller team.

Sorry for bed england I am nazi.

Rails

  • *
  • Posts: 430
  • Head Producer of Deadstops.
    • View Profile
Re: Hot Mess Tourney 2016: Map Format/Pool
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2016, 10:04:12 am »
Bump! Only 2 days until the poll closes!
I look forward to this post being taken down so that you can continue running a corrupt system for a game that has less teams then I can count with one hand.

 

A dedicated community website to competitive L4D and L4D2, ran by the community, for the community. L4DNation supports all continents of play and focuses on bringing together the community as a whole to a central hub of information.