Author Topic: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps  (Read 10135 times)

Map 1

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2017, 09:08:40 am »
I've gotten in contact with Valve to find out more info. BTW in case you're wondering why almost everything I'm posting about is related to Dark Carnival, it's because I'm working on a Dark Carnival remake and basically dissecting the entire campaign.

Here's some information I've found out from Valve.

- Dark Carnival has inspiration from Evergreen State Fairgounds in Washington and to a lesser extent Kings Island in Ohio.

- The monorail I talked about earlier was cut for feeling out of place and "too permanent a structure". Makes sense, because fairgounds typically aren't set up all year long. It also felt too similar to running on the tracks on the roller coaster later. Replaced with the Kiddyland version you seen now in the game.

- Originally the slide did not exist on map 2. Instead, you accessed the monorail tracks and used those to get across the fence. There's a lot of voice lines for Nick talking about "get on the monorail!" still left in the files that you can hear.

- The original finale was not the stadium, but at a train. You were to get into the traincars to escape, this is why you begin in the traincars on Swamp Fever 1. Changed because it felt out of place with the rest of the campaign.

- The stadium was then added, but with many differences. There was going to be a guy at the concert area, who Nick calls a "hippie" in the voice files who was going to help you set up the stage lights and sound. He would be up in the audience area calling the shots. Later changed so you set things up yourself. Also in the voice files are Nick and Coach talking about many other things you would've had to do during the finale, like lighting up the "smoke pots", hitting switches, and going around the map igniting fireworks.

And finally the most interesting piece of knowledge overall...

- A Midnight Riders campaign was considered where you would play as the Riders, but never came to fruition.

Interesting.

I've liked the Beta Parish you helped Mr. San with. Since its mostly true to the beta. I also liked the one by Someone, even if he went a totally different direction with it.The only thing really left for Mr Sans version is unlocking some roofs for versus play.

I thought you had abandoned the Dark Carnival remake, but im glad to hear its back on or never was abandoned.

In terms of Valve and L4D2. They continue to fart out sneaky updates here and there. Like the recent one that fixed the L4D1 common so they could be used without the horrible shading. The Midnight Riders campaign or DLC is something that was pretty popular in the community for a while. Not sure why they never bothered with that. I guess it was just easier to copy/paste the L4D1 survivors and campaigns. Just lazy really.

I also remember them making a bigger deal of the sacrifice finale than it ended up being. Talking like it was going to require a supreme amount of teamwork, when all it ended up being was hitting switches at the same time before finale start. Then using a throwable to hit the last switch or adrenaline or whatever else.

The more elaborate stadium finale they described probably would've amounted to hitting a couple more switches, but I suppose we'll never know. The train finale might've been neat and it would've made more sense with the Fever beginning, but I can see why they changed it. More extravagant as well.

If they ever do a 3rd (unlikely). They could throw the fans a bone/bookend DLC like having the L4D2 crew meet the Riders and you play a mix of the 8 characters or even two separate campaigns. Highly unlikely though.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 09:56:55 am by Map 1 »

NF

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2017, 03:41:35 am »
Interesting.

I've liked the Beta Parish you helped Mr. San with. Since its mostly true to the beta. I also liked the one by Someone, even if he went a totally different direction with it.The only thing really left for Mr Sans version is unlocking some roofs for versus play.

I thought you had abandoned the Dark Carnival remake, but im glad to hear its back on or never was abandoned.

In terms of Valve and L4D2. They continue to fart out sneaky updates here and there. Like the recent one that fixed the L4D1 common so they could be used without the horrible shading. The Midnight Riders campaign or DLC is something that was pretty popular in the community for a while. Not sure why they never bothered with that. I guess it was just easier to copy/paste the L4D1 survivors and campaigns. Just lazy really.

I also remember them making a bigger deal of the sacrifice finale than it ended up being. Talking like it was going to require a supreme amount of teamwork, when all it ended up being was hitting switches at the same time before finale start. Then using a throwable to hit the last switch or adrenaline or whatever else.

The more elaborate stadium finale they described probably would've amounted to hitting a couple more switches, but I suppose we'll never know. The train finale might've been neat and it would've made more sense with the Fever beginning, but I can see why they changed it. More extravagant as well.

If they ever do a 3rd (unlikely). They could throw the fans a bone/bookend DLC like having the L4D2 crew meet the Riders and you play a mix of the 8 characters or even two separate campaigns. Highly unlikely though.

Yeah, the Dark Carnival remake is back in development. I've actually been working on it for a while, but didn't want to announce anything until it was close to done. Right now the first 3 maps are complete and the 4th has the base geometry done. Unlike Downpour and Parish Waterfront, the Dark Carnival remake will consist mostly of entirely new areas built from scratch in the carnival setting.

I asked another question to the Valve person I'm talking to about why Parish 1 + 2 was split into seperate maps and if this happened to other maps too (my 4 map campaign theory). Here's the response:

"Typically we plot out each campaign base on what we want to include and try to keep it around the same length each time but as the development progresses and we test more and more we find that maps need to be split or maybe another mini finale is added to require a split.  It's a bit organic.  Hard Rain was quite different since the goal was to come back on the same path with different terrain.
There was a part after the roller coaster that X built before the end of that level but we found people almost dead right after the roller coaster so we had to cut it so the exit was right there.  I think it was just more track of carnival tents and fairground though - not another ride or attraction."

(replaced a name with "X")

So basically: it was too hard. And it's interesting to learn that Dark Carnival 3 continued into the bumper car area. The saferoom would've probably been the small room in the back, which coincidentally is something I did in my remake as well. This makes me wonder more about map 4, it would've been incredibly short with that area cut out unless there was something else cut. I have to email someone else at Valve to find that out since maps 4+5 of Dark Carnival was made by a different person than Map 1+2. So far I haven't gotten a response though.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 05:24:49 am by NF »

Adam

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2017, 03:43:42 pm »
Yeah, the Dark Carnival remake is back in development. I've actually been working on it for a while, but didn't want to announce anything until it was close to done. Right now the first 3 maps are complete and the 4th has the base geometry done. Unlike Downpour and Parish Waterfront, the Dark Carnival remake will consist mostly of entirely new areas built from scratch in the carnival setting.

I asked another question to the Valve person I'm talking to about why Parish 1 + 2 was split into seperate maps and if this happened to other maps too (my 4 map campaign theory). Here's the response:

"Typically we plot out each campaign base on what we want to include and try to keep it around the same length each time but as the development progresses and we test more and more we find that maps need to be split or maybe another mini finale is added to require a split.  It's a bit organic.  Hard Rain was quite different since the goal was to come back on the same path with different terrain.
There was a part after the roller coaster that X built before the end of that level but we found people almost dead right after the roller coaster so we had to cut it so the exit was right there.  I think it was just more track of carnival tents and fairground though - not another ride or attraction."

(replaced a name with "X")

So basically: it was too hard. And it's interesting to learn that Dark Carnival 3 continued into the bumper car area. The saferoom would've probably been the small room in the back, which coincidentally is something I did in my remake as well. This makes me wonder more about map 4, it would've been incredibly short with that area cut out unless there was something else cut. I have to email someone else at Valve to find that out since maps 4+5 of Dark Carnival was made by a different person than Map 1+2. So far I haven't gotten a response though.

If you want anyone to try and break the map and test some things let me know..

NF

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2017, 03:31:37 am »
Posted a complete summary with some new information from Valve here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/l4d2/comments/71hrcy/information_on_dark_carnivals_development_from/

If you want anyone to try and break the map and test some things let me know..

Sure.

NF

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Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2018, 03:29:33 am »


Skin of Midnight Riders band member Dusty from Valve's unfinished Midnight Riders campaign. It's a modified Francis, so this is probably an early beta/placeholder...

 

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