L4DNation

Competitive => Custom Campaigns & Mapping => Topic started by: NF on January 19, 2015, 09:17:50 am

Title: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on January 19, 2015, 09:17:50 am
EDIT: Make sure to read the whole thread, new discoveries are posted throughout.

Watching some old beta vids from E3 2009 and PAX 2009, I noticed some things:

- Swamp Fever used to be much brighter
- Swamp Fever 1 used to have way more foliage and different kinds; I noticed pine trees like from Blood Harvest
- There were more item spawns and with different items, but this was likely just to demonstrate the new things in the game
- Parish 2 alarm sounded different, and you dropped out (one way drop?) of the CEDA trailer instead there being steps
- Apparently, in the original Hard Rain, survivors had to go around turning on lights in houses to light the path on the way back

There is also the c5m1_waterfront_sndscape map still remaining in L4D2 that you can try out yourself by starting it through console. It combined Parish 1 and 2 into a single long map and has a lot of other cut changes. I wonder how the comp L4D2 would change if this was still the case... would the map be considered too hard?

------------------

Dark Carnival also looks like it went through a lot of changes close to release. There are a lot of entities still remaining in the maps that were never removed but can be seen by decompiling the maps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mPNojN9AHmM#t=30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mPNojN9AHmM#t=30)

Cool little observation I noticed from an old beta video. When he goes into the Dark Carn 2 warehouse, you see a new area that was cut from the game. That explains why there is that long dark hallway blocked off still remaining in the current version of the map. Wonder how the inclusion of this area would have changed the game as it is now... Perhaps running Tanks all the way back wouldn't be feasible anymore and you'd have to fight the Tank in that building. This area was likely cut to make the shooting gallery bigger (with that room there, the shooting gallery had to have been half it's current length). I plan to remake this area for fun soon.

Other things I have noticed:

DK1:
- Instead of Jimmy Gibbs car on Dark Carn 1, there was a police car (probably a placeholder)

DK2:
- There are hints that there used to be a path that took you to the rooftop behind the ladder choke (https://i.imgur.com/Pw0n6XY.png) once
- The rooftop had almost no detail (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP0aIWsERGM), most of the vents and wood pieces weren't added until later
- The slide used to be darker and have higher contrast colors, and the staircase leading to the top had a different texture that would have blocked LOS (allowing you to spawn underneath it)
- There are hints of a cut dynamic path that would have had you leaving the left side (https://i.imgur.com/Ou6G5bQ.png) of the pill room before the event, instead of the right side
- There used to be a scavenge version of DK2 that was cut but entities were left in. A lot of the gates that separated the areas (kiddyland/slide, first fairgrounds area) can be removed for such a mode. You can still remove these gates with the stripper:source plugin if you wanted to access the new routes.  (Screenshot 1 (https://i.imgur.com/fqCQEml.png), 2 (https://i.imgur.com/akC5O3n.png), 3 (https://i.imgur.com/kBgJOED.png))

DK3:
- There are leftovers from a cut path after the swan maintenance room. It appeared as if you originally went straight from the room with the shelves into the tunnel of love, instead of going to the one way drop as you do now. You can still see the arrow decal left in the current map.  (Screenshot 1 (https://i.imgur.com/LufA4a4.png), 2 (https://i.imgur.com/9RNVBxR.png), 3 (https://i.imgur.com/sEBLrU9.png))
- Dark Carnival 3 has a survival map, but it's not accessible without addons or console commands

DK4:
- There is secret room on Dark Carn 4 in the stadium, that had to be addressed in a Promod update once, because unreachable pills could spawn there. There's nothing interesting there but a few shelves and item spawns.
- The exit from the bumper car building probably looked like this (https://i.imgur.com/P3tDV7G.png) once. There are trigger brushes for an unused nav blocker entity there as well as some extra clips, which are typically used for dynamic pathing or changing map boundaries in various game modes (survival, scavenge etc). This might have been cut because it made a short map even shorter.
- There is a ride (https://i.imgur.com/uea6vA9.jpg) that is used as a background / skybox prop on maps 3 and 4. It may have been intended to be fully textured at one point or it may just be for detail

DK5:
- There are unused entities for a possible dynamic path that would have had you get to the outside of the stadium from the right side (https://i.imgur.com/ipg7U9m.png), rather than the left
- When Valve updated the finale sometime in 2011 (I believe) and remade some areas, they forgot to delete entities from the old version. You can easily see a few of them (https://i.imgur.com/vqIkQh6.png) left in the map in noclip mode

------------------

I know of a lot of other small things in the campaigns still but they probably aren't worth mentioning unless someone is curious.

Some other neat cut content: http://left4dead.wikia.com/wiki/Cut_Content#Campaigns_2 (http://left4dead.wikia.com/wiki/Cut_Content#Campaigns_2)

Here's (http://kotaku.com/5762232/seven-left-4-dead-posters-from-an-alternate-universe/) some more really cool concept posters for new campaigns Valve made. You can see some early concepts of areas that would eventually become L4D2 maps, like the motel, carnival, and swamp. I would've loved to explore these maps if they were ever made.

Anyway, that's all for now. Thought you guys might find this stuff interesting.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: Map 1 on January 19, 2015, 09:37:28 am
Well you have Beta Parish as it own map by a community mapper, its about as close as you will get to the original beta Parish map.

The mapper probably overthought about L4D1 in terms of the lighting, but all 4 maps have about 3 different random paths now. Which is more than you can say for stock Parish or even Dark Parish.

http://www.gamemaps.com/details/8117 (http://www.gamemaps.com/details/8117)

You also have this Steam Greenlight project, which is slated to be Turtle Rock L4D1, called Left 4 Dead Zero.

http://steamcommunity.com//sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=373002956 (http://steamcommunity.com//sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=373002956)

Heres the deal below, I doubt it ever gets completed, even though I would play it. If it ever does, Left 4 Dead 3 will likely be out and you need players to play the content.

Quote
What is this Mod about?
Left 4 Dead Zero is a mod aimed to bring you back the Left 4 Dead that meant to be released, along with adding a new gamemode that will continue the story of the original survivors, new campaigns, and improvements to visuals and gameplay. This mod is free, but requires you to own either L4D or L4D2 to be playable.

Left 4 Dead was originally developed by Turtle Rock Studios, it was later bought by Valve in January 2008, at first most bugs started to clear, the gameplay was cleaner and features were improved. Around early 2008 the game was clearly ready for release but in that time the last video you see of anything original, then in June 2008, the changes begun. By September, Valve had redesigned the art style of the game in only 3 months. Once the transformation had been complete, Left 4 Dead no longer looked to be a horror game and some fans were disappointed with the released build of L4D, and would rather have the build demoed off.

This mod will not follow the story of titles developed by Valve. Retail Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2, and Left 4 Dead 3 will not be canon with Zero, and Zero will not be canon with them.

Read More at our FAQ

Key Features
Restoration of the Left 4 Dead that was supposed to release
New Gamemode with a whole new story line, new weapons, new gameplay possibilities, 4 redesigned campaigns, and new 4 campaigns.
Playable Common Infected
Workshop Support
Improved Visual Graphics
Detailed weapons textures, shading and animations for normal and empty reload.
High res Common Infected
Enhanced animations for Survivors and Special Infected

Why Greenlight?
It's simple, we can't do everything without getting access to original files, We are quite limited to some people we can get files from, we can't get any more files from Splinks due to reasons that we will keep private. Currently we have some placeholders in-game, which are well made, but obviously we will change it to the original textures once we get them, so don't worry about fan made content being in-game when it releases. Also currently we have no maps from the original L4D, so you'll be mostly seeing L4D retail maps, and maps for Left Behind. We would also like to restore various things that requires the Source Code to restore, along with adding some new things, like better lighting, and a whole new gamemode. It will also be a better way to distribute all the content to you guys, since L4D1 is not modder friendly, L4D2 is remotely more friendly to modders, but it still puts limits on what we want to do.

What's new with Zero that I can't get with either versions of L4D?
Since we're going to Greenlight for the Source Code to L4D and access to more files, we hope to improve the lighting effects, and various other stuff with the engine to make it look better than both stock L4D and L4D2, along with being more stable than the Retail builds of those two games. We will also add support for Workshop, so you can upload game mods! We will also provide a new gamemode called Left Behind, which will be explained next.

What is Left Behind?
Left Behind is a new gamemode concept that we want to do, hopefully if Valve gives us access to source code, to bring fresh air to Left 4 Dead, expanding both gameplay and graphics, and offering a new alternate story to the original survivors after the events of the first game. Including new campaigns set in different locations and seasons (including maps with snow), new weapons that haven't been used in any L4D and several skins for each survivor (season related) and special infected/common. It wouldn't be extremely fast-paced like the retail games, but a bit more calmed giving a chance to enjoy the environment and design, also the cooperation will be enhanced, like giving items/ammo/ guns to each other, drag incapacitated players, push/pull objects, climb walls...

Learn more about Left Behind here

What happens when you guys get Greenlit?
Once we are Greenlit we will continue working on our mod until it's completion. Since we know that the original build of L4D was more than just different Survivors, we will release the original Survivors to L4D and L4D2 after we finish them and have been Greenlit. These differ from Splinks' releases of the Survivors, which had remaps and remakes of various textures.

Will this include L4D2 content/Will you guys restore L4D2 beta content
No, our goal is to restore what L4D was meant to be, there's a slight chance we may release beta L4D2 content back to the public, but that's very unlikely and isn't in our goal set.

What happens when you DON'T get the Source Code?

We'll figure that out when we get to that. We might make an Indiegogo to get the cash if we need to pay a license fee, because there's no way we'll be able to pay the $25k fee on our own.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on January 19, 2015, 09:54:23 am
Well you have Beta Parish as it own map by a community mapper, its about as close as you will get to the original beta Parish map.

The mapper probably overthought about L4D1 in terms of the lighting, but all 4 maps have about 3 different random paths now. Which is more than you can say for stock Parish or even Dark Parish.

I've played that map, I actually thought it was pretty terrible. The map maker didn't understand how the lighting engine works at all and he took liberties to remake areas that never existed. I don't mind remaking areas with your own ideas (obviously since I am working on 2 maps with that same principle), but if he was trying to recreate the "original" maps then it makes no sense. Plus The Parish was never at night time to my knowledge.

Left 4 Dead Zero looks really cool, this is the first I'm hearing of it. Can't wait to try it out. Hopefully Valve releases the source of L4D so that they could add that new gamemode (and because it would have some cool implications for competitive L4D)
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: Map 1 on January 19, 2015, 01:01:07 pm
Would the Charger be banned 4 life if they kept his Beta behavior?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o7a4e9Po_Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o7a4e9Po_Y)

It certainly would've taken the shackles off him.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on January 19, 2015, 01:24:57 pm
Would the Charger be banned 4 life if they kept his Beta behavior?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o7a4e9Po_Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o7a4e9Po_Y)

It certainly would've taken the shackles off him.

The beta charger looks worse. With the current charger, he carries you with him as far as he charges, then begins pounding. In the beta it looks like he just knocks you over then pounds after.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: Map 1 on January 19, 2015, 01:41:05 pm
I'm thinking his left click was Charge and his right click was pummel, so they were separate functions. Imagine removing the melee and having the behaviors separate? It seems like that was the direction they were going for in the beta. No way to really know for sure. It could be exactly as you said. A long pause before he returns to pummel. I'd like to think even they thought that was a stupid idea. I'm much more intrigued by the idea that they were separate functions. Trade off the cheap melee for more evasive behavior and sneaky pummels that could be charged up via that overhead slam animation seen in the video.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on January 19, 2015, 02:10:01 pm
That would be pretty cool if they were separate functions. Charging people down, escaping, then coming back for more charges sounds like it would be great fun. There's probably a modded server that has this somewhere.

Though to avoid going too far off topic, let's try to keep this discussion related to the maps only for now.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: Map 1 on January 19, 2015, 02:49:32 pm
Some of the map changes mentioned are probably for the better, at least in terms of the competitive L4D community. Dynamic pathing seems to be a widely despised idea. Could you imagine Carnival with random pathing? It would probably never be played. It's straight forward approach seems to be widely acclaimed. Also, Hard Rain would've been widely despised if the survivors had to run around and turn lights on, just to see where they were rushing. When the A to B formula is changed, its generally not well liked.

I suppose its something we should give Valve credit for. They knew most forms of the community were going to despise things that involved anything other than A to B gameplay. Dynamic Pathing, which introduces the element of C, or making the survivors have to do things other than get to the saferoom, would've been frowned upon on release, and they likely would've had to remove or change them outright to make things easier on survivor. Its about survival afterall, and nothing spells survival like going as fast you can to the next point.

Its part of the reason why even with 4-5 years dev time presumably on Left 4 Dead 3. I really don't see them having the guts to keep pre release promises that don't outright favor survivor. In fact, I hope they don't bother telling us, only to disappoint us anyway. All the more reason why I kinda hope Left 4 Dead Zero gets a proper release. Things like playable common infected, dragging survivors around and other ideas mentioned have me more intrigued than likely anything Left 4 Dead 3 will give us.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on January 29, 2015, 02:58:35 pm
I actually don't think competitive players would be heavily against dynamic pathing if it was implemented correctly. The current version of it can result in different dynamic paths for each team, which could lead to unfair situations. I think a better implementation would be to have randomly generated paths, but allow players to spec the map and scout out the changes beforehand, and as long as both teams had the same path. This could work in promod right  now because you can spectate during ready up. To make it work in vanilla, valve should add something like a "setup time" like in TF2,where players have a set amount of time to scout the map for things before they begin the game.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: Gray` on January 29, 2015, 03:38:43 pm
I actually don't think competitive players would be heavily against dynamic pathing if it was implemented correctly. The current version of it can result in different dynamic paths for each team, which could lead to unfair situations.

Agreed. Dynamic pathing is, as stated, only good if the paths are identical for both teams. If there were some way to make a set of pseudo-dynamic paths from which one is picked at random on map load and saved between halves, I think it would be pretty great. Personally, I don't think map scouting would really be necessary, given a finite number of possible paths. IMO, this game could use a little more variety.

Also, I don't really see valve doing much for this game...
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: Map 1 on January 29, 2015, 04:32:51 pm
Welp, in related/unrelated news, its been greenlit...

http://steamcommunity.com//sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=373002956 (http://steamcommunity.com//sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=373002956)
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on February 06, 2015, 01:36:26 pm
Update! I've finished remaking the cut beta areas from Dark Carnival!

Here's the "games" area cut from Dark Carn 2 seen in the first video in the OP post. It's, as far as I can tell, an exact 1:1 replica all the way down to the positioning of the chairs. Only difference is its new location. Check it out:

(https://i.imgur.com/eeK9nM2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rsPylHy.jpg)

More pictures:
https://imgur.com/a/gdQ4H

Here's the cut alternate path of Dark Carnival 3 as I imagined it would be. Another touch I added is that there is now flowing water in the tunnel of love, complete with splashing particles and sound effects! Just like before the apocalypse.

(https://i.imgur.com/s1tTST2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lxqx2jp.jpg)

More pictures:
https://imgur.com/a/hK7Wp

Quote
Welp, in related/unrelated news, its been greenlit...

[url]http://steamcommunity.com//sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=373002956[/url] ([url]http://steamcommunity.com//sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=373002956[/url])


That's great, can't wait to play it. Hope it has versus mode.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: Map 1 on February 15, 2015, 06:56:15 pm
Those paths look good.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on October 16, 2016, 05:55:48 pm
My friend Mr. Sangheili has made a big new discovery of hidden Valve test maps.

In the L4D2 Beta on steam, valve seems to have left in a lot of their internal testing maps and older versions of styleguide maps.

You can download them here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-XuXKrYrqYzZTd1cmpHZXBCTTg/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-XuXKrYrqYzZTd1cmpHZXBCTTg/view?usp=sharing)

Pictures:

http://imgur.com/a/Hz1UL (http://imgur.com/a/Hz1UL)

Some random observations:

- There are lots of beta testing maps, including one for the carnival games, one to view Parish foliage, one to test Swamp Fever water, one to test nav through swamp fever foliage (?), and others
- There is a beta version, perhaps, of the Dead Center 3 mall. It's strange, it looks too incomplete to be a beta version, but looks too detailed to be merely a test map. Not sure what valve was doing with this, maybe demonstrating the basic layout ideas for other mappers?
- The Carnival originally had green fairground tents
- The Swamp Fever water was originally (placeholder) the sewer water from DT2
- The Swamp Fever docks had a cut section that was large and round
- There's a map that spawns every possible combination of common infected: Every color and every type. Watch your FPS on this map :P

We suspect there's more hidden things in the L4D2 beta yet to be found.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: 3yebex on October 16, 2016, 08:11:28 pm
Wow, some of those beta maps look far better than the complete garbage we have now. They also look very open, a very different style than what we have now. Really upsetting we didn't get those maps and instead got these really crappy tunnel-vision linear maps we have now.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on October 16, 2016, 09:42:29 pm
Wow, some of those beta maps look far better than the complete garbage we have now. They also look very open, a very different style than what we have now. Really upsetting we didn't get those maps and instead got these really crappy tunnel-vision linear maps we have now.

In the Parish remake I partially created, I used these beta maps as a base. Mr. Sangeili is also using them for his upcoming map, so with any luck you should be able to play them in a real game soon.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: Map 1 on October 17, 2016, 04:30:24 pm
The Swamp Fever layout reminds me of something you might see in 2 Evil Eyes.

They probably had a lot more open/dynamic pathing ideas in mind and decided against it.

What's the extent of dynamic pathing in vanilla?

- C5m1 with the bar path, alleyway or boardwalk at the end
- C5M3 with the cemetery, and the cemetery doesn't feel like its very unique
- C1M1 with the fire doors, but really, I don't even really count that
- C1M3 with the lower/upper paths during the event

Dark Carnival was supposed to have or had evidence of having multiple paths on map 2 and the finale entrances if I remember.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: Mr. Sangheili on October 18, 2016, 07:41:29 pm
By the way, here's how the styleguides might have looked with skyboxes.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: 3yebex on October 18, 2016, 09:23:16 pm
By the way, here's how the styleguides might have looked with skyboxes.
Confirmed, better map design than final product.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: High Cookie on October 19, 2016, 02:13:24 am
Confirmed, better map design than final product.

You don't have to put other things down to say that you like something. Saying "I think these new maps would play to my style", sends the same message without you seeming like such a negative person.

It's really hard to like people who only hate. You do this a lot and its probably why you attract a lot of flack.

Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: 3yebex on October 19, 2016, 02:55:28 am
You don't have to put other things down to say that you like something. Saying "I think these new maps would play to my style", sends the same message without you seeming like such a negative person.

It's really hard to like people who only hate. You do this a lot and its probably why you attract a lot of flack.



Confirmed, better map design than final product.
I'm not changing my opinion.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on October 30, 2016, 08:36:00 am
Some neat discoveries lately of BETA and cut props from Dark Carnival. Very interesting, and fits in with my theory (among a lot of other evidence) that Dark Carnival was a rushed campaign and probably the campaign that was finished last. I posted a link at the bottom to a custom map where you can see them for yourself. Here's some pics for now, check it out:

http://imgur.com/a/tfagp (http://imgur.com/a/tfagp)

First image:

A beta Ticketbooth and Monorail tracks behind it. The ticketbooth was a very cool design that for some reason did not make it. Has a pointed top, three windows (only the middle can be jumped through) on a small raised platform, and a curvy roof trim.

Behind that are tracks for a cut monorail. This isn't the train tracks that go over Kiddyland in map 2; this is an actual monorail track and the pillar that would hold it up. Would've been really cool to see this in action, I'm sad Valve cut it. I can kind of understand the cut though, a monorail is something you see at a big theme park like disney world, not a small town fairgrounds.

Second image:

(from left to right) A small mic cable that would've connected the mic to an electrical box. Above it is a light fixture with 4 lights, probably would've rotated like a disco light. Next is a light fixture with 2 lights. Next is a cart with a stack of wood on it. It's marked as a fairgrounds prop, but I couldn't find a single instance of it used in the campaign. Might have been used in other campaigns though. After that is a model called split_case. Looks like a cool toolbox, maybe would've been used in the finale?

Third image:

From bottom to top: The beta bumper car. Had a sleeker design. The pole connecting it to the roof is part of the model so it probably wasn't hittable (in the actual game, the pole is a separate prop and can detach). The second bumper car is the normal one in game. The top is a bumper car model with a bugged texture, probably included in the game by mistake.

Fourth image:

Another view of the monorail tracks. You can see the electrical system and metal rail it would've run on. Cool stuff.

Fifth image:

Information kiosk frame. Would've had information about the carnival, maybe a map even. Next to that is an unused ash tray model with cigarettes in it.

Sixth image:

Drum cases that would've been present on the finale.

Seventh image:

The beta structure of the Barns on map 4, superimposed in front of the actual barns that made it into the game. You can see it was much shorter in size and had a less steep roof. Might have been removed in favor of a taller roof to make charges off do more damage? Who knows.

Eighth image:

On the right is a beta version of the ticketbooth that you see immediately beginning map 2, on the left is the actual ticketbooth. The beta one had sharp serrated edges, possibly a pinstripe design like the fairground tents.

Ninth image:

The beta structure of the rollercoaster tracks. Not much is different here, other than the wood pieces being in slightly different positions. In this image, you can see the second ramp you go up would've had tall edges on the side, preventing you from being knocked off (like on the first ramp). In the actual game this area has short edges that you can jump on. Later on (not in picture) the covered tunnel area also has these edges, implying the tunnel did not exist at that time.

Tenth image:


The beta tracks had a different wood design that would've prevented anyone from walking underneath it in some areas.


That's all the beta props I could find from Dark Carnival. Here's a download link for you to see them yourselves. Put it in your maps folder, then launch it through console. If you get a message about the map being unplayable just click OK and it'll be fine. In the map I've also superimposed the beta coaster structure (pink checkerboard pattern) over the actual coaster structure so you can see the differences. Enjoy!

https://www.mediafire.com/?19pyqdcfopaafkv (https://www.mediafire.com/?19pyqdcfopaafkv)
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on October 30, 2016, 08:43:21 am
Another minor discovery I made was that there was a cut scavenge mode from c2m2_fairgrounds. There are still a few entities that Valve accidentally left in for it. Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere so maybe I was the first to discover it. There was a cut survival mode from c2m3_coaster too, but most people know of that one already, and it can be activated with some addons (check the workshop).
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: Dyl Dough on October 30, 2016, 02:47:36 pm
Another minor discovery I made was that there was a cut scavenge mode from c2m2_fairgrounds. There are still a few entities that Valve accidentally left in for it. Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere so maybe I was the first to discover it. There was a cut survival mode from c2m3_coaster too, but most people know of that one already, and it can be activated with some addons (check the workshop).

LET ME DECIMATE DAT MAP GIF IT TO ME

MAKE IT A REALITY NF
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: Mr. Sangheili on October 30, 2016, 05:16:48 pm
Also, it looks like there was supposed to be a Scavenge game mode for The Cemetery map in The Parish.
When Scavenge was launched in the Cemetery, all "maze" patterns would be disabled by the info_gamemode so players wouldn't get confused or lost.

Unfortunately, not much remains but that info_gamemode and some nav blockers.
(Note the names on some of those entities. "temp_scavenge_items", "temp_scavenge_misc". Would this imply these were temporary items, maybe during its testing phase?)
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on February 26, 2017, 03:51:36 am
Dark Carnival: The Lil Peanut cutouts would talk and would say things like "Hey kids!". Survivors would then comment on how creepy they were.

Random discovery: Hidden infected ladder and fence inside of the dixieland diner building (c2m4_barns) opposite the bumper cart building.

The dixieland diner must have been added later on in map development, that area was probably opened up earlier or had a smaller building.

http://i.imgur.com/fzhFZOx.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/fzhFZOx.jpg)

EDIT: Found another inaccessible ladder. This ladder is strange since it's inside the building, and it also isn't on map 3.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=873593393 (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=873593393) 
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on June 23, 2017, 12:02:33 pm
New discoveries recently.

The Arcade game of L4D, released in Japan only, has updated versions of the maps with changes that aren't present either the PC or the console version. I don't think the updates were done by Valve but who knows.

https://youtu.be/7sBYAxDF9gU?t=512
Here you can see there's a special infected ladder leading to the top of the semi on Dark Carnival 1, and later there's one that leads to the bridge.

https://youtu.be/qPCh9U38oYk?t=47
Here you can see a dresser on the Dead Center 1 balcony that would force survivors to re enter the windows.

https://youtu.be/5Mpcff1tq8A?t=73
A huge bush outside the Dark Carnival 2 warehouse.

https://youtu.be/VDmCvIFi-po?t=606
A bunch of rubble on the Dead Center 2 bridge.

https://youtu.be/VDmCvIFi-po?t=655
A ton of barricades, another car, and a bus added to the Dead Center 2 highway.

All the maps also have a ton of bright arrows added to them to show the way. That's all I could find based on the limited footage available on Youtube. If anyone knows where I can find more footage, let me know!

==========================

Another thing we found are some beta Instructor messages that got cut.

L4D2_Instructor_explain_hatch
Displayed Caption 1: Open the hatch


A hatch event that got cut from a map?

L4D2_Instructor_explain_c4m4_finale_no_gas
Displayed Caption 1: You should bring the gas can here before you flip the switch


This shows Hard Rain 4 was originally planned to be 4 maps! That explains why map 4 and 5 (in the normal game)  are so easy compared to other campaigns. If you recall, Parish was originally supposed to be 4 maps as well, with Parish 1 and 2 being one long map. This means all campaigns would have been 4 map campaigns except Dark Carnival. But I could easily see the Motel map getting cut since it's unlike the rest of the campaign. Maybe all the campaigns were originally planned to be 4 maps only?!

Also, it looks like you would've had to carry the gas cans manually back through the Hard Rain maps. Good thing they cut that, sounds like it would've been annoying.

L4D2_Instructor_porch_light
Displayed Caption 1: Turn on porch lights to mark locations with items


Hard Rain porch lights could've been turned on manually to remind yourself of item stashes on the way back. Pretty neat.


Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: ninja on June 23, 2017, 05:50:12 pm
Great finds NF. Super interesting
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on July 22, 2017, 12:07:37 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/dPckSd9.jpg)

I restored the cut ticketbooth prop from Dark Carnival and made 3 variants: normal, kiddieland, tunnel of love. Will be used in a future custom campaign remake of Dark Carnival.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on September 02, 2017, 03:55:37 am
I've gotten in contact with Valve to find out more info. BTW in case you're wondering why almost everything I'm posting about is related to Dark Carnival, it's because I'm working on a Dark Carnival remake and basically dissecting the entire campaign.

Here's some information I've found out from Valve.

- Dark Carnival has inspiration from Evergreen State Fairgounds in Washington and to a lesser extent Kings Island in Ohio.

- The monorail I talked about earlier was cut for feeling out of place and "too permanent a structure". Makes sense, because fairgounds typically aren't set up all year long. It also felt too similar to running on the tracks on the roller coaster later. Replaced with the Kiddyland version you seen now in the game.

- Originally the slide did not exist on map 2. Instead, you accessed the monorail tracks and used those to get across the fence. There's a lot of voice lines for Nick talking about "get on the monorail!" still left in the files that you can hear.

- The original finale was not the stadium, but at a train. You were to get into the traincars to escape, this is why you begin in the traincars on Swamp Fever 1. Changed because it felt out of place with the rest of the campaign.

- The stadium was then added, but with many differences. There was going to be a guy at the concert area, who Nick calls a "hippie" in the voice files who was going to help you set up the stage lights and sound. He would be up in the audience area calling the shots. Later changed so you set things up yourself. Also in the voice files are Nick and Coach talking about many other things you would've had to do during the finale, like lighting up the "smoke pots", hitting switches, and going around the map igniting fireworks.

And finally the most interesting piece of knowledge overall...

- A Midnight Riders campaign was considered where you would play as the Riders, but never came to fruition.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: Map 1 on September 02, 2017, 09:08:40 am
I've gotten in contact with Valve to find out more info. BTW in case you're wondering why almost everything I'm posting about is related to Dark Carnival, it's because I'm working on a Dark Carnival remake and basically dissecting the entire campaign.

Here's some information I've found out from Valve.

- Dark Carnival has inspiration from Evergreen State Fairgounds in Washington and to a lesser extent Kings Island in Ohio.

- The monorail I talked about earlier was cut for feeling out of place and "too permanent a structure". Makes sense, because fairgounds typically aren't set up all year long. It also felt too similar to running on the tracks on the roller coaster later. Replaced with the Kiddyland version you seen now in the game.

- Originally the slide did not exist on map 2. Instead, you accessed the monorail tracks and used those to get across the fence. There's a lot of voice lines for Nick talking about "get on the monorail!" still left in the files that you can hear.

- The original finale was not the stadium, but at a train. You were to get into the traincars to escape, this is why you begin in the traincars on Swamp Fever 1. Changed because it felt out of place with the rest of the campaign.

- The stadium was then added, but with many differences. There was going to be a guy at the concert area, who Nick calls a "hippie" in the voice files who was going to help you set up the stage lights and sound. He would be up in the audience area calling the shots. Later changed so you set things up yourself. Also in the voice files are Nick and Coach talking about many other things you would've had to do during the finale, like lighting up the "smoke pots", hitting switches, and going around the map igniting fireworks.

And finally the most interesting piece of knowledge overall...

- A Midnight Riders campaign was considered where you would play as the Riders, but never came to fruition.

Interesting.

I've liked the Beta Parish you helped Mr. San with. Since its mostly true to the beta. I also liked the one by Someone, even if he went a totally different direction with it.The only thing really left for Mr Sans version is unlocking some roofs for versus play.

I thought you had abandoned the Dark Carnival remake, but im glad to hear its back on or never was abandoned.

In terms of Valve and L4D2. They continue to fart out sneaky updates here and there. Like the recent one that fixed the L4D1 common so they could be used without the horrible shading. The Midnight Riders campaign or DLC is something that was pretty popular in the community for a while. Not sure why they never bothered with that. I guess it was just easier to copy/paste the L4D1 survivors and campaigns. Just lazy really.

I also remember them making a bigger deal of the sacrifice finale than it ended up being. Talking like it was going to require a supreme amount of teamwork, when all it ended up being was hitting switches at the same time before finale start. Then using a throwable to hit the last switch or adrenaline or whatever else.

The more elaborate stadium finale they described probably would've amounted to hitting a couple more switches, but I suppose we'll never know. The train finale might've been neat and it would've made more sense with the Fever beginning, but I can see why they changed it. More extravagant as well.

If they ever do a 3rd (unlikely). They could throw the fans a bone/bookend DLC like having the L4D2 crew meet the Riders and you play a mix of the 8 characters or even two separate campaigns. Highly unlikely though.

Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on September 07, 2017, 03:41:35 am
Interesting.

I've liked the Beta Parish you helped Mr. San with. Since its mostly true to the beta. I also liked the one by Someone, even if he went a totally different direction with it.The only thing really left for Mr Sans version is unlocking some roofs for versus play.

I thought you had abandoned the Dark Carnival remake, but im glad to hear its back on or never was abandoned.

In terms of Valve and L4D2. They continue to fart out sneaky updates here and there. Like the recent one that fixed the L4D1 common so they could be used without the horrible shading. The Midnight Riders campaign or DLC is something that was pretty popular in the community for a while. Not sure why they never bothered with that. I guess it was just easier to copy/paste the L4D1 survivors and campaigns. Just lazy really.

I also remember them making a bigger deal of the sacrifice finale than it ended up being. Talking like it was going to require a supreme amount of teamwork, when all it ended up being was hitting switches at the same time before finale start. Then using a throwable to hit the last switch or adrenaline or whatever else.

The more elaborate stadium finale they described probably would've amounted to hitting a couple more switches, but I suppose we'll never know. The train finale might've been neat and it would've made more sense with the Fever beginning, but I can see why they changed it. More extravagant as well.

If they ever do a 3rd (unlikely). They could throw the fans a bone/bookend DLC like having the L4D2 crew meet the Riders and you play a mix of the 8 characters or even two separate campaigns. Highly unlikely though.

Yeah, the Dark Carnival remake is back in development. I've actually been working on it for a while, but didn't want to announce anything until it was close to done. Right now the first 3 maps are complete and the 4th has the base geometry done. Unlike Downpour and Parish Waterfront, the Dark Carnival remake will consist mostly of entirely new areas built from scratch in the carnival setting.

I asked another question to the Valve person I'm talking to about why Parish 1 + 2 was split into seperate maps and if this happened to other maps too (my 4 map campaign theory). Here's the response:

"Typically we plot out each campaign base on what we want to include and try to keep it around the same length each time but as the development progresses and we test more and more we find that maps need to be split or maybe another mini finale is added to require a split.  It's a bit organic.  Hard Rain was quite different since the goal was to come back on the same path with different terrain.
There was a part after the roller coaster that X built before the end of that level but we found people almost dead right after the roller coaster so we had to cut it so the exit was right there.  I think it was just more track of carnival tents and fairground though - not another ride or attraction."

(replaced a name with "X")

So basically: it was too hard. And it's interesting to learn that Dark Carnival 3 continued into the bumper car area. The saferoom would've probably been the small room in the back, which coincidentally is something I did in my remake as well. This makes me wonder more about map 4, it would've been incredibly short with that area cut out unless there was something else cut. I have to email someone else at Valve to find that out since maps 4+5 of Dark Carnival was made by a different person than Map 1+2. So far I haven't gotten a response though.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: Adam on September 19, 2017, 03:43:42 pm
Yeah, the Dark Carnival remake is back in development. I've actually been working on it for a while, but didn't want to announce anything until it was close to done. Right now the first 3 maps are complete and the 4th has the base geometry done. Unlike Downpour and Parish Waterfront, the Dark Carnival remake will consist mostly of entirely new areas built from scratch in the carnival setting.

I asked another question to the Valve person I'm talking to about why Parish 1 + 2 was split into seperate maps and if this happened to other maps too (my 4 map campaign theory). Here's the response:

"Typically we plot out each campaign base on what we want to include and try to keep it around the same length each time but as the development progresses and we test more and more we find that maps need to be split or maybe another mini finale is added to require a split.  It's a bit organic.  Hard Rain was quite different since the goal was to come back on the same path with different terrain.
There was a part after the roller coaster that X built before the end of that level but we found people almost dead right after the roller coaster so we had to cut it so the exit was right there.  I think it was just more track of carnival tents and fairground though - not another ride or attraction."

(replaced a name with "X")

So basically: it was too hard. And it's interesting to learn that Dark Carnival 3 continued into the bumper car area. The saferoom would've probably been the small room in the back, which coincidentally is something I did in my remake as well. This makes me wonder more about map 4, it would've been incredibly short with that area cut out unless there was something else cut. I have to email someone else at Valve to find that out since maps 4+5 of Dark Carnival was made by a different person than Map 1+2. So far I haven't gotten a response though.

If you want anyone to try and break the map and test some things let me know..
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on September 21, 2017, 03:31:37 am
Posted a complete summary with some new information from Valve here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/l4d2/comments/71hrcy/information_on_dark_carnivals_development_from/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/l4d2/comments/71hrcy/information_on_dark_carnivals_development_from/)

If you want anyone to try and break the map and test some things let me know..

Sure.
Title: Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
Post by: NF on May 02, 2018, 03:29:33 am
(https://i.imgur.com/293sEmJ.jpg)

Skin of Midnight Riders band member Dusty from Valve's unfinished Midnight Riders campaign. It's a modified Francis, so this is probably an early beta/placeholder...