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Left 4 Dead 3 / Re: B4B and L4D3 rumor train
« on: September 14, 2019, 10:11:10 am »
Neither game was particularly balanced.

Both favored survivor in casual and competitive play.

If anything, the other side will start off strong because people won't know how to play yet. Then through gradual neutering and people figuring out how to exploit the mechanics. The other side will become too strong and the devs will let it go because they don't want to mess with the code anymore.

Then pubs will just be the usual nonsense as it is in any game without a penalty system. So with any type of resistance equals auto ragequit and every game will once again become a 1 map, hell sometimes 1 half affair.

If Turtle Rock decided to help Valve with a Left 4 Dead 3. They should go for the rumored RPG element rather than more of the same. Similar to Resident Evil Outbreak. Its the only way to make the game similar, but different. They would also save themselves in the long run from the constant whining about survivors by just including the L4D1/L4D2 set along with maybe 4 newbies or 1 new one to replace Bill.

Give them each something worthwhile...

Louis - Better spread on assault rifles
Zoey - Better spread on the hunting rifle and double pistols
Francis - Better spread on autoshotties
Coach - Can tank more hits from infected
Ellis - Better spread on T2 snipers
Nick - Better spread on T1 weapons and magnum
Rochelle - Takes more damage, but is faster than all the other survivors in every scenario
Random new character - Heals themselves and others to 100 percent every time with a medkit. Everytime they use pills or give pills to others, it offers 50 permanent HP instead of temporary, but the offset to this is a slower character

That's all pretty basic cvar type stuff, but the idea is there.

Left 4 Dead 3 / Re: What happened to Left 4 Dead 3?
« on: February 28, 2019, 07:48:10 am »
Making the characters have different strengths and weaknesses would've been too much of a clone of Resident Evil Outbreak, which itself was a non competitive coop RE game.

Putting such a system in Left 4 Dead 3 would've created massive rage. Especially with Zoey in particular. If they gave her too many strengths and not enough weaknesses, people would bitch. If they made her weak, people would bitch and that's just with one of the survivors, nevermind eight.

It would've created an entirely new tier system with the survivors and if they added puzzle solving to the maps, once again that's RE and I could see the Left 4 Dead community raging if rushing/speedrunning weren't easy or the game wasn't 'the Left4Dead everybody remembers' so purists would criticize it. Anything new would be passed off as not Left4Dead.

That said, if they kept versus, these sort of things might've helped the specials in a casual PvP mode.

News / Re: References to a New Playable SI Found in Game Files
« on: February 19, 2018, 04:18:25 pm »
I would've liked to see the Leaker in action.

A proximity based Special could've been a neat idea.

News / Re: References to a New Playable SI Found in Game Files
« on: February 19, 2018, 05:48:52 am »
Someone did make the Witch playable via a plugin years and years ago.

You could move her around, stand her up, sit her down, climb ladders (a bit wonky) and trigger her when survivors were close.

The only thing you couldn't do was control her movements when she was triggered. Don't think it ever became a popular thing, regardless if she incapped you or killed you. I suppose the witch going from a pushover to a sure incap/kill if close was too much of a change for people to incorporate it in any competitive config. Even those OP modded servers that favor survivor or favor infected don't feature it at all.

I suppose this is one of those things if the witch were to ever be playable. Its going to be L4D3 and Valve is going to have to force it on the playerbase with new mechanics.

News / Re: Information on Dark Carnival's Development from Valve
« on: September 26, 2017, 02:12:49 pm »
Wouldn't it be something if they actually provided Midnight Rider player models and voiceover lines and you could cook up a community made DLC out of the new Beta Dark Carnival? It would be a lot more hybrid than Cold Stream turned out to be. Sort of non canon 'what if' DLC.

Take what you can get though. Nice little interview/tidbits of information.

Custom Campaigns & Mapping / Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
« on: September 02, 2017, 09:08:40 am »
I've gotten in contact with Valve to find out more info. BTW in case you're wondering why almost everything I'm posting about is related to Dark Carnival, it's because I'm working on a Dark Carnival remake and basically dissecting the entire campaign.

Here's some information I've found out from Valve.

- Dark Carnival has inspiration from Evergreen State Fairgounds in Washington and to a lesser extent Kings Island in Ohio.

- The monorail I talked about earlier was cut for feeling out of place and "too permanent a structure". Makes sense, because fairgounds typically aren't set up all year long. It also felt too similar to running on the tracks on the roller coaster later. Replaced with the Kiddyland version you seen now in the game.

- Originally the slide did not exist on map 2. Instead, you accessed the monorail tracks and used those to get across the fence. There's a lot of voice lines for Nick talking about "get on the monorail!" still left in the files that you can hear.

- The original finale was not the stadium, but at a train. You were to get into the traincars to escape, this is why you begin in the traincars on Swamp Fever 1. Changed because it felt out of place with the rest of the campaign.

- The stadium was then added, but with many differences. There was going to be a guy at the concert area, who Nick calls a "hippie" in the voice files who was going to help you set up the stage lights and sound. He would be up in the audience area calling the shots. Later changed so you set things up yourself. Also in the voice files are Nick and Coach talking about many other things you would've had to do during the finale, like lighting up the "smoke pots", hitting switches, and going around the map igniting fireworks.

And finally the most interesting piece of knowledge overall...

- A Midnight Riders campaign was considered where you would play as the Riders, but never came to fruition.


I've liked the Beta Parish you helped Mr. San with. Since its mostly true to the beta. I also liked the one by Someone, even if he went a totally different direction with it.The only thing really left for Mr Sans version is unlocking some roofs for versus play.

I thought you had abandoned the Dark Carnival remake, but im glad to hear its back on or never was abandoned.

In terms of Valve and L4D2. They continue to fart out sneaky updates here and there. Like the recent one that fixed the L4D1 common so they could be used without the horrible shading. The Midnight Riders campaign or DLC is something that was pretty popular in the community for a while. Not sure why they never bothered with that. I guess it was just easier to copy/paste the L4D1 survivors and campaigns. Just lazy really.

I also remember them making a bigger deal of the sacrifice finale than it ended up being. Talking like it was going to require a supreme amount of teamwork, when all it ended up being was hitting switches at the same time before finale start. Then using a throwable to hit the last switch or adrenaline or whatever else.

The more elaborate stadium finale they described probably would've amounted to hitting a couple more switches, but I suppose we'll never know. The train finale might've been neat and it would've made more sense with the Fever beginning, but I can see why they changed it. More extravagant as well.

If they ever do a 3rd (unlikely). They could throw the fans a bone/bookend DLC like having the L4D2 crew meet the Riders and you play a mix of the 8 characters or even two separate campaigns. Highly unlikely though.

Its been nearly 10 years since launch of L4D2.

Why now ask a question like this? It makes me feel like the development really hasn't even started?

I mean on the surface, its a nice little bone thrown to a community that stuck with them through all the drama of the first two games that they created.

On the other hand, it makes me think they should totally redesign the game. Make it more of a sandbox game instead of a go kart game.

For all the mutations and whatnot. The only things people kept coming back to was coop and vs.

Needs a redesign or some innovation.

Custom Campaigns & Mapping / Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Beta Maps
« on: October 17, 2016, 04:30:24 pm »
The Swamp Fever layout reminds me of something you might see in 2 Evil Eyes.

They probably had a lot more open/dynamic pathing ideas in mind and decided against it.

What's the extent of dynamic pathing in vanilla?

- C5m1 with the bar path, alleyway or boardwalk at the end
- C5M3 with the cemetery, and the cemetery doesn't feel like its very unique
- C1M1 with the fire doors, but really, I don't even really count that
- C1M3 with the lower/upper paths during the event

Dark Carnival was supposed to have or had evidence of having multiple paths on map 2 and the finale entrances if I remember.

Videos & Media / Re: Dead 4 Life [SFM]
« on: September 11, 2016, 04:18:40 pm »
Might as well be L4D3.

Give the Infected Guns and call it a day.

Good news: I've talked with the map creator, and given him my version of the partially completed Parish remake, and he will be using parts of it in his remake as well. Thanks for informing me of this Map 1, if I didn't know of this project my work would have gone to waste lol

As for his map, I've played it, and it does seem like a faithful work of the actual Beta Parish map using the Waterfront_Sndscape map file. Doesn't feel as detailed or polished as the real map, but that's intentional since it's called Beta Parish obviously. It's pretty good, I approve.

Good to hear.

I've always loved the look of the park in beta versus the vanilla version. With the pavement boardwalk and all that. That was one of the things I didn't like about the first Beta Parish by the other author. He removed it for some reason. Good to see this author has kept everything in tact from the beta map. Even added the old beta alarm in the trailer for the Ceda event.

After playing Hard Rain: Downpour, I always wondered why the "remake" attempts weren't ever attempted on Maps that aren't frequently played. Swamp Fever and Blood Harvest are a couple that come to mind. Not saying that Hard Rain: Downpour wasn't fun or that these Dark Carny pictures don't look really cool either.

I think its just a purist element, as with any community. For as much as people complained about the maps in vanilla or competitive. They are routine maps and sometimes changing routine can be good, sometimes bad. The point being, routine changes when you have to relearn the maps.

Off the top of my head, here's the laundry list of ports/remakes/vanilla of the same maps.

Dead Center
Dark Center - Same, except Night
Dead Center: 25 Years Later - Survival map, but looks great
Flood Center - Cancelled, but intended to be a water heavy Dead Center campaign with floods, I remember playing old builds
The Passing
Dark Carnival
Dark Carnival Remake cancelled by NF
Swamp Fever
Swamp Fever Remake cancelled by NF
Hard Rain
Hard Rain: Downpour
The Parish
Dark Parish - Many unlocked roofs, some alternate paths, actual crisp, polished night time settings, low weapon counts
Beta Parish by Someone - The sndscape map is too dark, some of the other changes I like, but its not as good as Dark Parish
Beta Parish by Mr Sanghelli - Talked about this already
Cold Stream
Cold Stream Night - Same, except Night

Now L4D1

No Mercy
No Mercy Apocalypse
No Mercy Day
No Mercy: 25 Years Later - Survival Map, but looks great
No Mercy Port before L4D2 No Mercy shipped with the Sacrifice
No Mercy Modified
Beta No Mercy and its various incarnations
Fairfield Fallen - Basically No Mercy, Death Toll, Crash Course and Last Stand combined into one mega campaign with changes
Death Toll
Death Toll Apocalypse
Death Toll port before the actual port
Clamtoll: A Death Toll Remake - Heavily changed Death Toll with new paths, new finale etc
Death Toll Modified
Dead Air
Dead Air Day
Dead Air Modified - Most noteworthy for changing the finale into a scavenge finale
Dead Air port before the actual port
Blood Harvest
Blood Harvest Apocalypse
Blood Harvest Modified - Escape in a helipad in the finale instead of a truck
Blood Harvest port before the actual port
Crash Course
Crash Course Day
Crash Course Apocalypse
Crash Course port before the actual port
Crash Course Modified - Noteworthy for making Crash Course a Hard Rain style 5 map campaign
The Sacrifice

And I don't recall totally, but I remember Canadarox, Icy Inferno or whomever doing some other ports around here before the L4D1 maps eventually came over.

But as we can see. The interest is/was there for more of the L4D1 maps than the L4D2 maps. Maybe its an issue of caring, maybe its nostalgia, maybe its dead game, life, who knows, etc.

That's pretty neat. I too wasn't satisfied with the "dark" version. It looked just plain bad and didn't resemble the beta at all. This one looks to be more faithful.

Ha, I actually did the same exact thing with my parish map remake. I created a new cemetery as well. I'm trying to get in contact with the map maker now to see if he wants my files.

How'd you find out about this? Seems pretty obscure...

I found out about his version because he was talking with the creator of the other Beta Parish on the page for it on the workshop, where he revealed his work on his version.

His version is still WIP, but its still accessible on the workshop via friends only. Once its completely finished, it will be released to the public.

Those look pretty neat.

For those interested. This is still a work in progress.

There is a fella who wasn't entirely happy with the Beta Parish released a few years back by another author, as it was a mixed reaction, the all too dark lighting and heavy changes turned some of the community away from it. So he's decided to do a more faithful, daytime version of the map. So there will yet another version of the Parish out there to go with vanilla Parish, Dark Parish and the other Beta Parish. This one simply called The Waterfront.

Off the top of my head features

1. The original c5m1_waterfront_sndscape restored and not altered.
2. Map 3 has a new end saferoom to match that of the L4D2 trailer
3. Map 2 will have a new cemetery/plus a new start based on files of what the map may have looked like in beta
4. Map 4 will have a new start based off the end Map 3 saferoom that changes up the dynamics of the finale, both in coop and vs

Ah I see.

I remember it being posted about sometime back when the Hard Rain Redux was first released.

I haven't seen anything about it in a long time. Tried to look around to see if anyone has mentioned it recently. I assume the devs are a bit busy or they scrapped the project because of real life or lack of L4D2 interest or its just a slow process like those who keep waiting for Turtle Rock devs to release files to them in hopes of rebooting L4D1 as L4D Zero.

All I can say is. If its still in development. As long as the tank stuck suicide shit on the Carnival finale is fixed for coop modes in mind. I'd call it a victory.

I know this probably isn't something of interest (like at all) around here, but I was just curious if it were plausible via some kind of workaround/plugin to force any particular client to hear the sounds from the left4dead2/dlc3 folder instead of the stock l4d2 sounds?

Valve apparently hardcoded the L4D1 sounds they finally added some time back to the L4D1 set. Basically all sound files from the dlc3 folder. So if you force the set to be set 2 (L4D2 survivors). You'll get the L4D2 sounds on the L4D1 campaigns. In the  case of Mercy, apparently you get both sets of sounds overlapping one another, if the set is 2.

So basically, I was just wondering if there were any way you could get around the hardcoded survivor set to determine what set of sounds the clients hear? That way you could set the client to hear the sounds from the dlc3 folder without issue? Regardless of survivor set?

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