Author Topic: Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.  (Read 583 times)

Dusty

  • ****
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.
« on: April 30, 2018, 10:42:48 pm »
So I'm looking to have a community discussion about a few things regarding sounds.

Increasing occurrences of silent spawns, and It becoming worse and seeming to affect other SI now as well (Smoker/Charger?)


I think most people who can play this game on a regular basis in the past and now can agree that somewhere along the line, Silent spawns became more prevalent.
While It's true it could be placebo, Most people I have asked or talked to about this have noticed the same or agree with me.
And at least speaking for myself, It's becoming such a nuisance/annoyance, that I'm actively looking for fixes to this problem.
I mean I don't think there's any good argument for silent spawns to exist in the game when hearing/audio is basically the way you are supposed to know where and what is happening as survivor.

Which leads me to the main point of me posting this, How would you feel about the removal of things like ambient noises? (Ex: Crickets on dark carnival).
What If removal of said sounds helped alleviate the problem of silent spawns?
Or even just as quality of life? This is something that has already happened in a few cases such as alarms like The Parish: Map 2 event alarm.

I've only heard secondhand, but from what I have heard, It does in-fact sound a LOT better and helps fix the problem when you remove such sounds, and I want to test it.
I hope people can understand, I am not looking to get unfair advantages or cheat to win or fuck anyone over or anything along those lines.
But I want to find a fix or hear what people think, and test it so people can see for themselves how it sounds.


If you have an argument for the other side or agree with what I have said, I'd like to hear peoples opinions.




Other small issues I hope to talk about it future threads
-Smoker tongues being broken, Not sure if plugin or gun balance related. But they often just don't break when shot. I often thought it was placebo but from talking with others I believe this is a problem.
-Jockey M2 FOV change seems to me (Placebo/thoughts) to be broken, Sometimes Jockey's seem to get hit by your M2 in the air but just go through anyway. Like I said, could just be lag/ping/placebo but it actually seems broken to me.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 10:57:48 pm by Dusty »

Adam

  • *
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Re: Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2018, 10:59:27 pm »
Sir already found a way to remove the crickets and ambient sound but I think he didn't want to implement it because it would also mute the alarms (which we snd_restart anyway) unless there was another reason behind not doing it. People have asked to remove the rain and all that shit for so long now it would be cool if it was actually happened.

Edit: Also i feel like chargers and every other si all have the potential to be silent because of the height sometimes and angle you might rocket jump from. Not much anyone can do about that i think that's just the game being from 2009 and having shit sound. But removing the general clutter of sounds might help
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 11:02:01 pm by Adam »

NF

  • *
  • Posts: 1083
    • View Profile
Re: Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2018, 03:06:03 am »
Add stripper filter for env_soundscape and all ambient sounds are removed from the map. This would not mute alarms also.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 04:38:51 am by NF »

hib

  • *****
  • Posts: 710
    • View Profile
Re: Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2018, 05:01:42 am »
Basically Adam is saying, might as well mute the alarms since you can SND_RESTART...but i think overall it's pretty stupid how we are taking sounds away from the game.. just add the fucking bacteria sounds and we're gucci :)

Dusty

  • ****
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
Re: Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2018, 08:05:07 am »
Quote
but i think overall it's pretty stupid how we are taking sounds away from the game.. just add the fucking bacteria sounds and we're gucci

Hmmm, well just in case you didn't know, bacteria sounds are in the game. And if your excuse is that you don't play the game to know, then why do you talk about it?

And honestly, "it's pretty stupid" is a strong point, so I'm not sure how to refute, But if you could dumb it down for me and make some points that a layman like me could understand, I'd appreciate it.

Bravo

  • *****
  • Posts: 896
  • Hi
    • View Profile
Re: Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2018, 07:55:09 pm »
in my opinion a competitive game is one that aims to remove most if not all aspects that are out of players controls aka rng shit.  sounds like the opening of parish 4 or shit thats avoidable by snd_restart wouldnt be a bad idea to remove.  Why? well because take parish 4 for example, if a survivor walks out and prompts the initial noise and they just sit in saferoom until its over other than time wasted what just happened? nothing. If you're argument is to work around said rng in the game then its not really an argument since you should never be forced to do so in a competitive setting unless its something completely unfixable like the movement of witches when drawn that sometimes long arm you when you're literally out of range of killing them.

Lawn

  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2018, 09:45:04 am »
I've seen two instances in the past two times I've played where a tank throwing a rock is completely silent.  I think it's important to make a distinction between things people just don't hear and things that are truly SILENT.  If a caption popped up for you, it's not silent.  But in these cases, there was no caption nor any sound from the tank picking up the rock which I haven't ever encountered otherwise in all my time playing L4D2.  Granted there are ways like long charges to make them totally silent (no caption or sound) but trying that is wholly impractical.  On a map like Hard Rain where the rain noise is inherent in the design of the map, it's iffy whether or not it should be muted.  Personally, I love that idea as I hate accidentally snd_restarting and having my ears and asshole blown out by the wind.  It's a touchy subject and I feel muting most sounds as a baseline removes advantages anyone could gain from using a program like Audacity to alter their sounds to their advantage.  It would be an interesting change and I feel the level of survivor play and teamplay in general would increase with such a change. 

Just make mathacks and deleted sounds legal and let's call it a day.

Bravo

  • *****
  • Posts: 896
  • Hi
    • View Profile
Re: Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2018, 05:07:45 pm »
weird, I dont think I ever have not heard a rock being picked up to the point where I actually just look for spawns knowing a rock is being thrown and just look at the last second and avoid it.  Only thing I can think of is that the tank was literally too far for you to hear it in which case, why u eatin moon rocks bra  8)

hib

  • *****
  • Posts: 710
    • View Profile
Re: Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2018, 12:29:00 am »
I've seen two instances in the past two times I've played where a tank throwing a rock is completely silent.  I think it's important to make a distinction between things people just don't hear and things that are truly SILENT.  If a caption popped up for you, it's not silent.  But in these cases, there was no caption nor any sound from the tank picking up the rock which I haven't ever encountered otherwise in all my time playing L4D2.  Granted there are ways like long charges to make them totally silent (no caption or sound) but trying that is wholly impractical.  On a map like Hard Rain where the rain noise is inherent in the design of the map, it's iffy whether or not it should be muted.  Personally, I love that idea as I hate accidentally snd_restarting and having my ears and asshole blown out by the wind.  It's a touchy subject and I feel muting most sounds as a baseline removes advantages anyone could gain from using a program like Audacity to alter their sounds to their advantage.  It would be an interesting change and I feel the level of survivor play and teamplay in general would increase with such a change. 

Just make mathacks and deleted sounds legal and let's call it a day.

If I'm not mistaken, this has been a problem in the past and I was able to find a countermeasure for it using consistency checks. I'm not sure how the sound consistency checker works however, from previous tests and understanding, it compares the filesize and the integrity of the contents of the file. There shouldn't be a way to alter sounds but if there is, it's not something that I or other config developers are aware of.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 01:19:01 am by hib »

hib

  • *****
  • Posts: 710
    • View Profile
Re: Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2018, 01:15:24 am »
Hmmm, well just in case you didn't know, bacteria sounds are in the game. And if your excuse is that you don't play the game to know, then why do you talk about it?

And honestly, "it's pretty stupid" is a strong point, so I'm not sure how to refute, But if you could dumb it down for me and make some points that a layman like me could understand, I'd appreciate it.

From my experience playing, and keep in mind that I play with snd_musicvolume 0, I've only have heard jockey's bacteria sound plays when it spawns because we had a history of the jockey not making noise as it spawns. Other than that, I am unaware of other SI bacteria sounds that play. If you could add a respond on your experiences, it would not only benefit me but also the players in this community.


On my previous post, I'll admit, I didn't put much thought onto what I was writing and it's a flaw to who I am but for the most part, to me the game is much more fun due to it's realistic nature of sounds which includes the ambient ones you mentioned previously.

To my understanding, your request is to remove ambient and other sound you deem "unnecessary" in an attempt to find out whether it affects SI related sounds. Personally, I'd like to figure out what is causes SI sounds to become silent due to the affect of the game itself. However, it seems that the way you want to go about this is through the removal of multiple sounds until you get your desired outcome. In my opinion, this sound be done on a test server and not be implemented with future patches to configs themselves. Again, to my main point, I like the game to be realistic with different sounds rather than playing the way Antero did by removing several different sound files except for SI and gun sounds because it seems impractical and doesn't seem appealing in an auditory manner.

The usage of snd_restart is a cowardly way to escape from sounds, and shouldn't be a function of the game. If it was up to me, I'd block that function so that we would not be able to exploit it. Also, it may be advantageous and cheap whereas player A may use it once a round, while player B may use it multiple times within the round. Especially, since not all players know the way snd_restart functions as in which situations it can be beneficial and where it can detrimental. And these findings have not been made open to the public so whomever has spent more time to test it and figures out how it works gets an unfair advantage over other players.

« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 02:58:16 pm by hib »

hib

  • *****
  • Posts: 710
    • View Profile
Re: Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2018, 01:35:16 am »
Also, I forgot to mention, you may want to see this thread.
https://www.l4dnation.com/server-zone/server-sound-problem/msg52110/?topicseen#new

Keep in mind that Special Infected used to make noises as ghosts, and has been muted so the problem may be related to that.

Sir

  • *
  • Posts: 894
    • View Profile
Re: Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2018, 03:43:14 am »
Add stripper filter for env_soundscape and all ambient sounds are removed from the map. This would not mute alarms also.

The true MVP.

The usage of snd_restart is a cowardly way to escape from sounds, and shouldn't be a function of the game. If it was up to me, I'd block that function so that we would be able to exploit it.

I agree, I dislike "seeing" people obviously use snd_restart when they stream.

I personally would've blocked it a long time ago, if it was possible to do so.
Unfortunately that command is client-sided, the server doesn't get told when a client is using it
Group Owner of :| SirPlease
Config Dev :| Zonemod 1.8

Lawn

  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2018, 09:04:59 am »
weird, I dont think I ever have not heard a rock being picked up to the point where I actually just look for spawns knowing a rock is being thrown and just look at the last second and avoid it.  Only thing I can think of is that the tank was literally too far for you to hear it in which case, why u eatin moon rocks bra  8)

For the record, I didn't eat either rock when I saw it happen but that's unimportant.  The first time it was a normal street rock tank on DK1 and the tank was on the motel roof throwing rocks down onto us as is normal, no sound/no caption.  If I'm remembering right the other one was on DK as well and the tank was curve rocking thru a doorway in the room just after the swan area and somebody pushed to the back closet where the tank was rocking and a rock magically appeared.. again with no sound or [Tank Picks Up Rubble] caption. 

hib

  • *****
  • Posts: 710
    • View Profile
Re: Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2018, 03:02:04 pm »
I may be wrong but I suspect mumble's positional audio feature may also have a hand in the muting of sounds. Try discord as well and see if it occurs with either.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 08:59:56 pm by hib »

Bravo

  • *****
  • Posts: 896
  • Hi
    • View Profile
Re: Silent Spawns/Removing Sounds. Other bugs/problems.
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2018, 11:21:02 am »
For the record, I didn't eat either rock when I saw it happen but that's unimportant.  The first time it was a normal street rock tank on DK1 and the tank was on the motel roof throwing rocks down onto us as is normal, no sound/no caption.  If I'm remembering right the other one was on DK as well and the tank was curve rocking thru a doorway in the room just after the swan area and somebody pushed to the back closet where the tank was rocking and a rock magically appeared.. again with no sound or [Tank Picks Up Rubble] caption.

you ate both rocks, i was both tanks. end of discussion. go home.

 

A dedicated community website to competitive L4D and L4D2, ran by the community, for the community. L4DNation supports all continents of play and focuses on bringing together the community as a whole to a central hub of information.