Author Topic: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament  (Read 8547 times)

Luckylock

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #90 on: December 05, 2017, 11:06:41 am »
This has happened a bit too much.. so I'm just going to say it. It's been irking me.

1) Make a server to try and play the trendy Promod
2) Realise it doesn't have the "latest" Promod because it's "EXCLUSIERJJVE"
3) Be confused and dissapointed as to why this is the case
4) We're gonna play Zonemod then

Jacob, your work looks inteteresting and people are excited to try it out but you're making using your config so much more of a hassle than it needs to be. "If we want to play Promod we HAVE to use this one guy's servers... "

Speaking to Jay / Grizz dax / MK since I know you two are behind the exclusivity:
I don't know what the intent is behind it? Something tells me it's something not healthy at all, and it has to do with control / power. You do what you want at the end of the day, but if you expect people to be forced on your server indefinetly to satisfy your insecurities you're (probably, hopefully) wrong.

I don't even play much anymore so I don't know why this still annoys me, it's just a shame to see your work go to waste.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 05:03:43 pm by Luckylock »

sinclair

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #91 on: December 05, 2017, 04:50:45 pm »

fig newtons

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #92 on: December 20, 2017, 04:52:06 pm »
Speaking to Jay / Grizz dax / MK since I know you two are behind the exclusivity:
I don't know what the intent is behind it? Something tells me it's something not healthy at all, and it has to do with control / power. You do what you want at the end of the day, but if you expect people to be forced on your server indefinetly to satisfy your insecurities you're (probably, hopefully) wrong.
I talked to MK about this and the gist I got from him is that efreak has a vision of a hacker-free community, and if they published the config it would mean hackers banned on efreak could just play on a different server.

I'm not endorsing that view, fyi. Just repeating what I heard.

Dusty

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #93 on: December 21, 2017, 05:36:12 pm »
It's also a vision of whoever I don't like or who I think is hacking can't play MY config. Which seems like we TFPG boiz

sinclair

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #94 on: December 22, 2017, 05:52:05 am »
It's also a vision of whoever I don't like or who I think is hacking can't play MY Grizz's config. Which seems like we TFPG boiz
fixed. i can't speak for Him, but i'm sure if he were still with us today that this is the last thing he would have wanted...

MK

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #95 on: January 07, 2018, 12:14:03 am »
Hi all, how are you doing?

I am up for discussion so here I am.

4) We're gonna play Zonemod then

Jacob, your work looks inteteresting and people are excited to try it out but you're making using your config so much more of a hassle than it needs to be.

@Luckylock - You can play whatever mod you like, we just provide servers and a different mod to play on.  We by no means are trying to sway you into playing PME only.  I myself love playing both mods and have no problem getting my friends to join Sir or eFreak servers depending on what mod to play.  Both Zonemod 1.8 and ProMod Elite are exclusive to their steam group servers.

Maybe I should clear the air for you guys and I am open to discussion.  Yes the eFreak vision is to have a hacker free community.  If you hack, script, use macros, etc and get banned then sorry you cannot play on eFreak servers and PME.  We don't go around banning people we don't like.   

Previously there was only 1 NA server group which was Hot Mess.  Now there are eFreak servers and Sir servers.  If we ban a cheater that player can easily play on Sir servers until or if Sir bans them.

I am going to make an assumption and say that Sir turned on his servers because of eFreak banning Danne.  An ex-eFreak admin by the name of BCK and someone else(I don't remember) were watching Danne play.  They recorded a video and reviewed it frame by frame and believed that his crosshair at different moments was autolocking onto commons.  They made a decision and banned Danne.

I wasn't officially an admin at this time because I was making Bloom servers with IMNX and we were going to join them to eFreaks.  A lot of drama happened and Dax stepped down from eFreak and handed it to me, because of personal decisions.  I then removed BCK and Jay from staff for being unprofessional and other internal reasons.

That's more than I should have shared but I thought I would give you some insight.





Sir

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #96 on: January 07, 2018, 05:31:30 am »
Hi all, how are you doing?

Howdy thurr!

Both Zonemod 1.8 and ProMod Elite are exclusive to their steam group servers.

The difference being that Zonemod has been public all this time, it's simply in a safe "test environment" as it's receiving its final touches.
It is in my opinion that a config that aims for "main" competitive play should not be limited to a single Server Group.
Especially not if it's going to be used for bigger Tournaments.

I am going to make an assumption and say that Sir turned on his servers because of eFreak banning Danne.
That is quite an assumption to make there my friend, I mean.. Danne's a good pal, but I wouldn't invest money in a bunch of Servers just so he has a place to call home. Heck, screw that man.
As far as I know, Danne wasn't even banned when I started up my Servers again.
Besides, everyone knows I'm an on/off switch, flickerin' lights, all that jazz.

An ex-eFreak admin by the name of BCK and someone else(I don't remember) were watching Danne play.  They recorded a video and reviewed it frame by frame and believed that his crosshair at different moments was autolocking onto commons.  They made a decision and banned Danne.

I think the problem with this is that the video was never shared AFAIK, multiple requests were made to share said footage, but it never was.

I then removed BCK and Jay from staff for being unprofessional and other internal reasons.

BCK?
The same admin that banned my good old pal Danne? :-X
Group Owner of :| SirPlease
Config Dev :| Zonemod 1.8

sinclair

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #97 on: January 07, 2018, 08:47:44 am »
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« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 10:22:53 pm by sinclair »

volarium

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #98 on: January 08, 2018, 07:41:40 pm »
Previously there was only 1 NA server group which was Hot Mess.  Now there are eFreak servers and Sir servers.  If we ban a cheater that player can easily play on Sir servers until or if Sir bans them.

For the record, even though Hot Mess ended up being the primary group at the end, that wasn't the case during most of the time Hot Mess existed.  In NA, Hot Mess shared the load with MANY other groups.  Only at the end did most of the other groups shut down for various reasons.  And internationally, Hot Mess was far from the only group, so players had plenty of server options. 

Dealing with players being banned on some servers and not on others is just simply part of this community, and there is no solution to it.  You can do your best to partner with other server owners, but this community will never reach a state where there is universal consensus on who should be banned, and in my opinion, that's okay because it's almost always subjective.

So, if you concede that withholding a feature or config is not realistically going to magically result in preventing players from playing on other servers, then truthfully the only rationale for doing so is for competition - in hopes that everyone will choose your group instead of others. If that's the goal, then I suppose you are making the right decision (for you) toward that goal.

However, for Hot Mess, that was never the goal.  From day one, the goal was always to do the right thing for the community, and provide a solid, fair option for players to choose to play.  It's true that during the years that Hot Mess existed, many partnerships were formed, and it often resulted in working together toward the betterment of the community, but there was never a point where we went out of our way to actively prevent players from choosing another group or server. If you provide a well-run place to play, then you shouldn't have to resort to petty tactics like withholding configs or excluding players.

I've been involved in this community almost since the beginning, when I helped build LTD, and from the very start, the community was built on sharing of knowledge and technology.  Folks like visor and psim and sir and jacob and countless others spent an absurd amount of their free time to create the plugins and configs that this community is built on.  And even though there has been some dissension in things like sharing source code and such, there has rarely been a time when plugins, configs, and information weren't readily shared with anyone who is willing to invest the time to make use of them.

Of course, some servers have different or better features than others, and that's expected, but the idea of literally withholding an entire config just to maintain a "corner on the market" seems completely absurd to me in this community. I'm actually ashamed of everyone who has participated in making that decision, because I think it completely contradicts the spirit of what this community is all about. 

Running a server group is an incredibly large investment of time, money, and stress, and there literally is NO payoff, financial or otherwise. In my opinion, the ONLY logical reason for even doing it is to give back to the community that we have all shared together, and to help bring a little order to the chaos so that we can continue to enjoy this game.  Making decisions in an effort to proactively control where people are allowed to play or not play, at least for me, is a slap in the face to all the people who have worked so hard over the years to selflessly do the right thing.

I truly mean no offense to anyone who worked on it (especially jacob, who I hold in very high regard), but realistically Promod Elite is just another config.  There is nothing magical or groundbreaking about it, and it will come and go like other configs. It's fun and exciting now, but it's not going to somehow transform the community. My issue is not specifically that this particular config is so special that this gift to mankind simply MUST be shared with the community, but more that I hate to see a dangerous precedent being set. After working so hard for this community for so many years, it would truly sadden me to see the community heading down a path that leads to dissension and exclusion, instead of trying to bring people together.

Orrpo THE Monster

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #99 on: January 09, 2018, 08:33:15 am »
It's also a vision of whoever I don't like or who I think is hacking can't play MY config. Which seems like we TFPG boiz

As much as I'm sure everybody in Europe and elsewhere yearns for the good old days of who is mates with Visor or Sir isn't banned, I see why others prefer this.
It's less a vision of whoever I don't like and more a vision of saying sucking up to the right admins at the right time, isn't enough.
 You said you thought he cheated in the past, they think he did too and haven't changed their mind (whether you have or not) they want him banned. I'm guessing they also see someone having a guy as admin and "assistant tournament director"  and who had this to chip in during the debate:

Nowhere did I say Danne is clean or not.

Is a little less than principally legit in his choice of admins. And that this is a way around that ban.

But ofc, that's fine with Sir in his money and decisions as it is fine with Efreak. Mostly it's either become an embarrassment or a running joke to do anything other than admit it was hacking and then a leap and hop to hugging the next server owner to not get banned / be made admin.

You personally at this moment can play on both servers. There is barely a negligible issue. Enjoy

If you provide a well-run place to play, then you shouldn't have to resort to petty tactics like withholding configs or excluding players.

Vol you yourself banned on your own servers, beyond your own set term limits of your own rules, for personal reasons, and your entire wall of text collapses with it on anything to add to the issue. This near nothing of an issue now is a direct response to those kinds of decisions made then.

I think the problem with this is that the video was never shared AFAIK, multiple requests were made to share said footage, but it never was.

And Danne didn't show his demos from that cup even when the tournament director requested them, and the Deli triggers, and the Dyl/Luckylock vid, and this gem https://clips.twitch.tv/IronicSoftTaroJKanStyle and so on and so on.


BCK?
The same admin that banned my good old pal Danne? :-X

No matter whose name showed up for a bit on the ban, the ultimate decision rested far away from only BCK at Efreak and any contribution he made. If you want to get closer to a person more influential in the Efreak ban, look no further than Deli.
Someone that already had him banned on EMC and that you made moderator of your group, at around the same time as you made Danne moderator.


This is a negligible issue. Rather easy and solved. If you want to play PME go to Efreak

 

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