Author Topic: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament  (Read 15976 times)

Adam

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2017, 08:03:42 pm »
I mean like i said before I'm not opposed to either sides of the argument. But you cant be on the fence for m2s its just buggy af..and i don't see it being a thing you can just fix in a day granted i don't know the first thing about making a config.

Moscow

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2017, 10:57:44 pm »
Whatever blocks hunters from rolling when shoved off a surv is broken/missing in the new promod. Dunno if it was already mentioned.

iamSun

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #62 on: November 21, 2017, 04:19:36 am »
Tournament cancelled? Where are sign-ups?

sinclair

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #63 on: November 21, 2017, 06:44:04 am »
Waiting for 3 things. We've decided to run it off eFPS, so we're waiting to talk to Dallas about that, and also there are more servers coming. We wanted them to be up for 1st week of matches. The third thing is the config, and I think that is finally ready including !team mode.

Dusty

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2017, 02:36:56 pm »
So is this going to be a tournament of what the community wants or what you want? Because this mod is a buggy piece of shit. Zero polish and terrible mechanics, It's like old promod with a fucking sticker over the top.




« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 02:43:18 pm by Dusty »

Fridays

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #65 on: November 21, 2017, 04:10:16 pm »
So is this going to be a tournament of what the community wants or what you want? Because this mod is a buggy piece of shit. Zero polish and terrible mechanics, It's like old promod with a fucking sticker over the top.

haha /thread
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 04:13:10 pm by Fridays »

Bravo

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #66 on: November 21, 2017, 04:17:01 pm »
So is this going to be a tournament of what the community wants or what you want? Because this mod is a buggy piece of shit. Zero polish and terrible mechanics, It's like old promod with a fucking sticker over the top.

Why u remoof me?

sinclair

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #67 on: November 21, 2017, 07:25:15 pm »
I am sorry if you have been mislead Dusty, but as I have said from the beginning, this is going to be a config of what grizz wants.

Jacob

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #68 on: November 22, 2017, 12:52:54 am »
So is this going to be a tournament of what the community wants or what you want? Because this mod is a buggy piece of shit. Zero polish and terrible mechanics, It's like old promod with a fucking sticker over the top.

Can I get a list of these bugs? Can you explain what you mean by zero polish? Which mechanics in specific do you disagree with? While I agree it's similar to old pro mod (as that was the intention), the changes I've made I'd consider to be quite a bit more than just a sticker over the top.

It definitely had bugs while we were working on it, but that's why I had it labeled as "0.x", it wasn't intended to be a finished product just something for people to play on if they wanted to and give feedback while we worked on it.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 12:54:46 am by Jacob »

Dusty

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #69 on: November 22, 2017, 02:51:36 am »
Quote
Can I get a list of these bugs? Can you explain what you mean by zero polish? Which mechanics in specific do you disagree with? While I agree it's similar to old pro mod (as that was the intention), the changes I've made I'd consider to be quite a bit more than just a sticker over the top.

Sure, I'll make a list here       

List number 1: Mechanics that are BROKEN. (Not just a difference of opinion)

1.    Hunters getting stuck in the ground from M2's

2.    Hunters randomly getting pounce resets when pouncing off the ground.

3.    The M2 Plugin that is supposed to only allow uzi's to M2 seems extremely buggy, shotguns can sometimes m2 air hunters, other pounces seem to go straight through M2's when you have uzi.

4..   Full levels are complete luck, sometimes It's impossible to full level a charger because of how the rays of melees interaction with charger hitbox, but also promod seems to have something that is making it happen MUCH more often (second part maybe placebo)

5.    If you melee a tank and get punched, your gun flies out of your hands, Is unable to be picked up and still counts as a weapon held until you get another primary weapon pick-up, So you can't pick up an uzi if you had 3 uzis. So unless you find a shotgun spawn, have fun running around with only a secondary weapon.

6.    Some of the bugs with chargers like leveling it, and taking 10 damage and getting a get-up animation still. Or randomly getting the long get-up animation.

7.    Not being able to jump or punch for a while after spawning as tank.

   

List Number 2: Mechanics that I believe are bad/wrong or have no place in the game.

1.   Jumprocks... Holy moly I don't even want to get started because I'll fucking begin a never-ending rant. But these are re-introduced and people are already jumprocking scripting their fucking asses off. For one, jumprocks are a bug, and an overpowered one at that. Secondly, there is just zero way to catch these people scripting, I know for a fact some people who are scripting, but even if I said their names, it would just be a witch-hunt and nothing would come of it. So why allow this overpowered bug? It's going to be scripted and abused, It makes bad tanks good because they can use AHK or a keyboard macro. If you succeeded in making the serverside or button that would allow you to jumprock on a single press, or just allowed scripts to do it, it would be LESS of a problem, but in my opinion still an overpowered bug.

2.    Spit damage... I'm not sure EXACTLY what values promod is using for spit damage but I just think it's way too fucking high, the game basically is who can get more spitter+cap gangbangs per map, there is 0 incentive to go for multicaps if you can just pull a guy into a charge spit, it's 100% the better play. Because a hunter or smoker or jockey has to land for what, 15 seconds to do equivalent damage to a charge spit, so why bother trying it's not likely or as easy as pulling a guy then charge spitting. I understand that some people might think zonemod's spit damage was too low, but I seen it as fine, If something like a charge spit or hunt spit lands, the majority of the damage should be what the charger or hunter gets for how long they have someone capped, and spit is just a bit of additive damage, because spitter is in essence, a skillless S.I. You rely on your teammates cappers to land. So it shouldn't do the majority of your damage IMO. If you know anything about the game or have advanced knowledge, you'd know that spit does SO MUCH DAMAGE. That it is better to LEAVE YOUR TEAMMATE CAPPED BY A CHARGER so that when he finishes his get-up the spit will have ended. How is that rewarding or smart gameplay?

3.    Full levels... Just random as fuck, I know I put it in broken mechanics but its also just something I'm so against. There is no skill in full leveling charges, and this is coming from someone who spent 10's of hours sitting in listen servers practicing and doing full level because scavenge player LUL.

4.    The "competitive/team" settings of promod... I don't really know what other people think, but being able to vote your tank spawn sounds like the most boring scrim/match of l4d2 ever. You'd just always vote the hardest/impossible tank spawns for the map. Many maps almost become unplayable because some tank spawns are just so fundamentally broken.

5.    Instant damage smoker tongue... If you are able to self clear yourself or a teammate instant clears you, you shouldn't take damage from a smoker IMO.

6.    Melee Damage on tank... I'm not sure what the values are, but I feel like melee is just way too fucking powerful on tank again, Most of the time it's not even worth reloading your gun if you have any chance to just burger a tank.

7.    Friendly Fire Damage... I Just think that being able to shoot someone with a shotgun for 20 damage is silly, it's too fucking much, that's like emptying half an uzi clip into a teammate.


It's 3AM here so I'm sure I will think of more things to add and edit this list to include them. Also getting some values like the spit damage in promod and damage value from melees on tank would be insightful and help me clear up ambiguity in my list. I'd also like to hear peoples thought on my list and if I am someone who stands alone on my thoughts, or If people think that my thoughts are agreeable.

Luckylock

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2017, 07:18:27 am »
I agree, hunters are a buggy mess in promod. I think you should perhaps take a good look at them Jacob.

As I've said earlier, jumprock scripts are and always will be a thing, I also agree.

I disagree with nerfing spitter damage, I would instead opt for removing it entirely if people don't like playing with a spitter that can actually do something.

I don't know if friendly damage is 20 for shotgun meatshots (I think it's 10?) but that didn't bother me, I just had to be more careful.

But overall everyone playing the game regularly is well aware that promod has a few bugs. Sir has seen and fixed a few of these issues in his own configs, you don't necessarely have to code something that's already been done before so maybe talk to him or something.

I also feel, like many other people, that you should've maybe started where zonemod left off and just put uzis / spitters back to promod values + other changes you would want. Basically you want to make survivors harder to play, but the features you've implemented back to accomplish this are well known broken / abusable mechanics. I would argue that overall, despite the extra bugs, the harder survivor gameplay / improved SI ability made the game feel more alive, but maybe there's a better way to accomplish this.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 07:21:27 am by Luckylock »

Dusty

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #71 on: November 22, 2017, 07:55:18 am »
Quote
I disagree with nerfing spitter damage, I would instead opt for removing it entirely if people don't like playing with a spitter that can actually do something.

I think you have this backwards, in things like zonemod the spitter does do something. But in promod the spitter does and IS everything.
ex zonemod: Charger lands, 10 damage cleared quickly, spit does 10 damage.
ex promod: Charger lands, 10 damage cleared quickly, spit does 40 damage.

In promod there is no incentive to go for multicaps really because it's all based around landing charge spits. The spitter damage should be an addition of damage, not all of the damage.

Even when zonemod spitter was at it's weakest, and most played point I believe, a spit puddle did 2 damage a tick for a total of 40 damage. Since then when noone has been playing it I'm pretty sure, it was buffed to be 3 then 4 damage per tick alternating for a total of 70 damage per spit. Not sure what promod is using or if it's vanilla spit, but I'd like to hear and know.

I mean the game is more fun with spitter, but just not when the damage is oppressive IMO.

Quote
I don't know if friendly damage is 20 for shotgun meatshots (I think it's 10?) but that didn't bother me, I just had to be more careful.

It's definitely 20, and yeah it's nothing gamebreaking but I think it still exists in promod where someone can be inside your model and you can FF each other. And even if it didn't I just think it's way too much, even being reduced back to 6 or maybe 10 would be better.

hib

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2017, 11:35:31 am »
Quad caps are okay, but really don't deal a lot of damage especially how easily hunters die in this config. Honestly, the game was alot better and fun in promod 3.2~ era.

Dusty, I understand some of the main points you have but keep in mind, the game is not being catered to your liking. The self clear on smokers shouldn't really be a thing, especially with the lotted time you have. You should be given half the time to self-clear, instead of the 5 seconds or whatever gap you have to shoot before you become paralyzed. Either that or add more recoil to the survivor while getting pulled.

LET ME BECOME A DUSTY FOR A LITTLE BIT....
Just grant people the ability to m2, shotgun and uzi. Give only 1 m2, so that you cannot spam it and get away with it. Give hunters a bit more hp, so that they don't instantly die. Skeeting is way too easy now, i see people with "not so good" aim being able to kill hunters easily. Jump rocks are cool but with the scripting occuring, and ability to know who's scripting it, it's removal seems more appropriate (it sucks and sad that people have to resort to scripting to be able to do this maneuver, I'm sure bravo would agree).

For the spitter, IF POSSIBLE, make the spread of the spit more larger while making the ticks of damage less, so that it balances out (i guess). Allow jockeys to do DPs. Give tank LOS ability like the old promod/EQ versions. Tanks that are really good at maintaining LOS should be rewarded. Also, the infected team should be rewarded to play a longer tank, if they work together and land rocks.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 11:46:25 am by hib »

yams

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #73 on: November 22, 2017, 12:31:44 pm »
3.    Full levels... Just random as fuck, I know I put it in broken mechanics but its also just something I'm so against. There is no skill in full leveling charges, and this is coming from someone who spent 10's of hours sitting in listen servers practicing and doing full level because scavenge player LUL.

5.    Instant damage smoker tongue... If you are able to self clear yourself or a teammate instant clears you, you shouldn't take damage from a smoker IMO.

6.    Melee Damage on tank... I'm not sure what the values are, but I feel like melee is just way too fucking powerful on tank again, Most of the time it's not even worth reloading your gun if you have any chance to just burger a tank.

7.    Friendly Fire Damage... I Just think that being able to shoot someone with a shotgun for 20 damage is silly, it's too fucking much, that's like emptying half an uzi clip into a teammate.



Jacob

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #74 on: November 22, 2017, 02:19:05 pm »
lists

Hunter getting stuck should be fixed, I switched to removing all deadstops using the same plugin as other configs. I have watched a lot of games and tested it myself pretty extensively and haven't seen the gun drop bug yet, but in case that is a rare thing I can remove that plugin. Full levels aren't a bug. Bugs 2 6 and 7 that you listed though I'll look into.

I don't really have any opinion on most the balance stuff, for the most part I've just been putting in the values people tell me to cuz I considered myself pretty distant from the game and what people liked. I'm just making an updated pro mod for a tourney.

That being said:
1- Jump rocks, I'll talk to grizz and co.
2- Spit damage is set to 3 dmg per tick for 20 ticks for a max of 60. Zonemod alternates between 2 and 3 damage ticks for the same duration. I personally don't think spit is too crazy in the current version, I've been tweaking god frames and spit duration and I think it feels okay, on average you should only be taking about 5 more damage per spit than in zonemod. (If you get hit by 10 ticks or half the spit duration, that would be 25 damage on zonemod and 30 on pro mod) It's only really punishing if you get horded and your team doesn't clear you.
3- Don't really have any opinion, can pass it along.
4- I agree with your concerns, which is why I limited each team to 2 moves per campaign, and made it so tank cant spawn super early or super late. The hope is there will be some strategy to when you use your tank moves. Do you want to use it on map 1 to try to get an early lead, or save it for a later map? I think you should try playing on it in a scrim before judging it because I want feedback on that feature I just need feedback based on experience not predictions.
5- I just copied zonemods smoker settings, but if they don't have the instant smoker damage I can remove that.
6- Right now melee damage is 270 per swing (vanilla 300, zonemod 240), I thought that would be fine in conjunction with the plugin that forces you to switch to your gun when you get punched but if I'm gunna remove that plugin anyways I can drop it to 240.
7- I'll look into friendly fire damage.

 

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