Author Topic: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament  (Read 16310 times)

Fridays

  • *
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #75 on: November 22, 2017, 09:50:02 pm »
What Grizz's original post stated:
1. PM:e is meant to challenge survivors "directly", ie stronger SI, decrease "hold W" mentality, emphasis on team cohesion and less solo fragging
2. PM:e is meant to make "positioning" more important, ie baiting, temp health damage sponges, map dynamics etc

How the config is not achieveing these goals:
1.-2. Quad-caps aren't incentivising survivor positioning or cohesion at all, hunters get skeeted 70% of the time in pugs and even more in scrims. Being able to eliminate 2 SI instantly with SG does not incentivise positioning (baiting), it favours run and gun. If you want to stop 'run and gun' survivors you need to reward players for baiting and punish players for not stopping when the SI are ready to attack. IMO Zonemod 1.7 is already leaning in that direction since spawn rotation is now 100% reproducible, meaning Si can get the optimal hit for a given position in the map. If you reward SI spawn rotation with more damage than just throwing your SI in asap, you'll actually give the survivors a reason to bait. Having 2 hunters doesn't reward smart SI play in the slightest, in fact it actually benefits teams who throw their hits at the survivors regardless of map positioning. Which results in run and gun survivor play.

Another reason why this config is failing to incentivise baiting is that it still has not addressed the issue of melee weapons- Being able to full level a charger is not difficult and often times can occur unintentionally. Why reward survivors for something that requires little to no aim or skill? On top of that, being able to eliminate another SI instantly does the exact opposite of incentivise baiting. Levelling a full hp charger does not encourage positioning, it favours individual skill and run and gun play. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there is too many melee weapons for the survivors in pm:e and in zonemod. Melee weapons are probably the number 1 aspect of survivors that allows teams to run through a map unscathed. No SI should be able to be killed with one hit from a melee at full health: If the SI are that close to survivors and have full health why are they being rewarded for not using their primary? The purpose of baiting is to disrupt SI spawns and get as much damage on them from a distance. Being able to kill them full health at point-blank range doesn't encourage that.

Spitters should be useful for SI but overall being able to land a synchronise attack should be more important that smoker>charge>spit. SI should be rewarded for getting the most optimal spawns for a location instead of simply landing the same attack every time. The spawn rotation in ZM1.7 fixes the issue and should definitely be apart of pm (unless it already is idk). Self-clear shouldn't exist IMO although I think a better buff for smoker would be to disable tongue breaking, that way having a smoker in certain locations might actually make baiting a hit worth it. It is worth considering buffing SI's abilities instead of their damage values.

For the spitter, IF POSSIBLE, make the spread of the spit more larger while making the ticks of damage less, so that it balances out (i guess).
Why? Have players suddenly started missing spits? Not exactly topical. Alternating spit damage is a good compromise since the damage accumulation over time isn't linear anymore. Survivors should be rewarded for clearing quickly and punished for clearing slowly. The counter effect should be that spitters get rewarded for landing their spit asap on a capped survivor or potentially before the cap lands, making it easier to land the spit seems irrelevant when the only time SI would be benefited is when the survivors are in a small area.

tldr config hasn't made baiting as important as it ought to be if that is the inclination Grizz has theorised just my opinion
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 09:57:38 pm by Fridays »

Fridays

  • *
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #76 on: November 23, 2017, 03:11:34 pm »
https://clips.twitch.tv/CharmingAbrasiveGiraffeNinjaGrumpy

m2 on a hunter in version 1.0 from a sg player
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 03:20:45 pm by Fridays »

sinclair

  • *****
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 1858
    • View Profile
Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #77 on: November 23, 2017, 03:16:59 pm »

Fridays

  • *
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #78 on: November 23, 2017, 03:20:10 pm »
actual after looking at it you're right about that woops

Jacob

  • *
  • Posts: 2171
  • Actively Killing The Game
    • View Profile
    • Stream
Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #79 on: November 23, 2017, 06:47:45 pm »
I'm working on a big update that will hopefully address most of the concerns people have brought up. I might break it into 2 updates so I can get some of the improvements out earlier, but all of it should be done within the next few days.

hib

  • *****
  • Posts: 713
    • View Profile
Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #80 on: November 25, 2017, 11:24:59 pm »
give me double jockeys, double chargers, and double smokers FUCK IT

make it so that if you have a quad capper, it will random from the 4 cappers (hunter, charger, jockey, smoker).

so instead of getting the ability of a second hunter, you can get a second other capper as well.

FUCK IT!

Bravo

  • *****
  • Posts: 916
  • Hi
    • View Profile
Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #81 on: November 26, 2017, 01:53:16 pm »
give me double jockeys, double chargers, and double smokers FUCK IT

make it so that if you have a quad capper, it will random from the 4 cappers (hunter, charger, jockey, smoker).

so instead of getting the ability of a second hunter, you can get a second other capper as well.

FUCK IT!

If I play a pug and I see two smokers coming for me I will hunt jacob down.

Sam

  • ****
  • Posts: 341
    • View Profile
Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #82 on: November 27, 2017, 09:33:07 pm »
jacob making l4d2 great again

Jacob

  • *
  • Posts: 2171
  • Actively Killing The Game
    • View Profile
    • Stream
Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #83 on: November 27, 2017, 11:38:53 pm »
jacob making l4d2 great again

jacob breaking l4d2. great, again? xD
on a srs note the update has taken longer than expected, should hopefully have a pretty big update out in the next couple days tho.

Dyl Dough

  • *****
  • Posts: 1141
  • They call me John Wick
    • View Profile
Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #84 on: December 01, 2017, 08:41:35 am »
Friday I bet if we got in a server and tried 10 times you could maybe full level 1 charger. Especially when there's horde and other SI everywhere. Most people can't do it in the moment. They just get mad about being leveled cuz they're bad with chargers and come from obvious places and get rekt.

Just saying.

Jacob

  • *
  • Posts: 2171
  • Actively Killing The Game
    • View Profile
    • Stream
Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #85 on: December 04, 2017, 04:42:29 am »
Hey guys, deli was busy for a few days so couldn't update before now but just put out a decent sized update that should hopefully help with a lot of the things you guys brought up. Gunna be putting out 1 more update in a few days, so if you see anything missing from this update let me know so I can make sure it's included in the next one.

PME 1.1:
- Increased godframes vs friendly fire by 0.8 seconds.
- Increased godframes vs commons by 0.6 seconds.
- Increased godframes vs spit by 0.1 seconds.
- Increased charger godframes by 0.1 seconds.
- Removed jockey godframes (was previously 0.1 seconds).
- Reduced melee weapon damage vs tank to 240 per swing.
- Fixed tank being unable to jump or attack for a short period after spawning.
- Fixed hunters sometimes getting an instant repounce after being shoved off a survivor.
- In team mode when the opponent moves the tank spawn, survivors can now see the new %.
- Removed plugin which forced survivors to switch to their gun if they got punched by tank while they had a melee weapon out.
- Prevented some instances of friendly fire damage and capped shotgun FF max damage.
- Fixed tank rocks sometimes getting stuck on common infected or incapped survivors.
- Smoked survivors no longer collide with common infected.
- Updated confoglcompmod to better support team mode features.
- Witch can no longer stumble other SI.
- Doubled charger slam damage vs incapped survivors.
- Removed full levels.
- Disabled jump rocks.

sinclair

  • *****
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 1858
    • View Profile
Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #86 on: December 04, 2017, 06:36:31 am »

Dusty

  • ****
  • Posts: 266
    • View Profile
Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #87 on: December 04, 2017, 08:19:51 am »
Positive/Unknowns PME 1.1:
- Increased godframes vs friendly fire by 0.8 seconds.(Numbers changes, hard to evaluate something you cant really feel unless you play)
- Increased godframes vs spit by 0.1 seconds. (See #1)
- Increased charger godframes by 0.1 seconds.(See #1)
- Removed jockey godframes (was previously 0.1 seconds).(See #1)
- Reduced melee weapon damage vs tank to 240 per swing.(Fantastic)
- Fixed tank being unable to jump or attack for a short period after spawning.(Wonderful)
- Fixed hunters sometimes getting an instant repounce after being shoved off a survivor.(Awesome)
- In team mode when the opponent moves the tank spawn, survivors can now see the new %.(Not a fan of team mode. But +rep bugfix)
- Removed plugin which forced survivors to switch to their gun if they got punched by tank while they had a melee weapon out.(Does this mean you will be able to melee tank again after punches in promod til something is figured out?)
- Prevented some instances of friendly fire damage and capped shotgun FF max damage.(Great)
- Fixed tank rocks sometimes getting stuck on common infected or incapped survivors.(Booya)
- Smoked survivors no longer collide with common infected.(Phenomenal)
- Updated confoglcompmod to better support team mode features.(Things that go above my knowledge +rep)
- Witch can no longer stumble other SI.(I'd be curious to see how this works, not sure how to feel about it)
- Removed full levels.(Spectacular)
- Disabled jump rocks.(Remarkable)


- Increased godframes vs commons by 0.6 seconds. (Is this referring to getting hit by common when getting up from hunter or charger? I feel like it wasn't a bad thing, just meant your teammates had to clear you from SI and common.)
- Doubled charger slam damage vs incapped survivors.(I'm extremely scared this could be OP. would have to play with it a bit.)

No word on the hunters randomly getting stuck, with and without being M2'd. And their pounces randomly resetting.
No word on the M2 plugin and it's fixes or removal so far.
I think smoker tongue should do first tick as vanilla values and quick ticks after still.

Is this mod going to be publicized or is it meant to stay this privatized exclusive crap? Not to point fingers or be rude to anyone as I don't know the exact ideology behind it, but it seems worse for the community.

Jacob

  • *
  • Posts: 2171
  • Actively Killing The Game
    • View Profile
    • Stream
Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #88 on: December 04, 2017, 06:18:09 pm »
- Increased godframes vs commons by 0.6 seconds. (Is this referring to getting hit by common when getting up from hunter or charger? I feel like it wasn't a bad thing, just meant your teammates had to clear you from SI and common.)
Yea that's during getup animations, other configs have had that value set to 0.6 and pro mod was at 0.0, so I decided to change it just to have less random disparity between configs. You should still take common damage while getting up since get up animations are 2+ seconds.


Quote
- Doubled charger slam damage vs incapped survivors.(I'm extremely scared this could be OP. would have to play with it a bit.)
Again this is a change that was already standard in other configs, it will take about 10 seconds for charger to kill someone once they are incapped (assuming no other damage like spit / boom)


Quote
No word on the hunters randomly getting stuck, with and without being M2'd. And their pounces randomly resetting.
No word on the M2 plugin and it's fixes or removal so far.
These should have been fixed in 1.0 but just to be safe I had deli recompile the plugins from sirs / visors github so there shouldn't be any issues here. We removed the "1 m2 for smg" plugin in 1.0 as well. If you see this happen on 1.1 let me know.


Quote
I think smoker tongue should do first tick as vanilla values and quick ticks after still.
I'm making this change in 1.2, I wanted to get 1.1 out asap.


Quote
Is this mod going to be publicized or is it meant to stay this privatized exclusive crap? Not to point fingers or be rude to anyone as I don't know the exact ideology behind it, but it seems worse for the community.
I never intended to come back to make a "new pro mod", I was contacted by jay + grizz + the people from efreak to make a new config for their servers. I even named it "new mod" initially, and they later changed it to it's current title. They gave me a bit of money in exchange for making the mod + giving it to them, so if it were to go public they would have to be the ones to release it because I feel that I've essentially "sold the rights" to it if that makes sense. If I could go back in time I'd probably have pushed harder for it to be publicly distributed.


Also @jay I'm trying to look into ways that I can make the auto jump rock work still, or to prevent people from scripting it but in the mean time I felt it was necessary to remove it since it was becoming a very controversial point of the config.

hib

  • *****
  • Posts: 713
    • View Profile
Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #89 on: December 04, 2017, 11:23:05 pm »
Great job Jacob!

 

A dedicated community website to competitive L4D and L4D2, ran by the community, for the community. L4DNation supports all continents of play and focuses on bringing together the community as a whole to a central hub of information.