Author Topic: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament  (Read 15974 times)

iamSun

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2017, 06:17:44 pm »
What?

Game is like dying and stuff.

And out of the blue you idiots don't want to threat different regions fairly now?

sinclair

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2017, 07:30:23 pm »
If we didn't accommodate for a regions of the world we would have never have had the best team in Left 4 Dead 2 history dominate the scene for years.

nv- - AN ASIAN TEAM

Your reasoning just sounds like you "don't want to deal with it."
What?

Game is like dying and stuff.

And out of the blue you idiots don't want to threat different regions fairly now?
I think what we will do is similar to previous events. Plenty of foreign teams still entered, but with the expectation that they would have to conform, not the other way around. nV certainly was a great team Dylan, and they entered many US tournaments under these circumstances, one of which against you RBT. You seemed to have no problem playing them in one US game then. But like Artifacial said, teams that are able to accommodate the asian teams and potentially play the two games are encouraged to; just we will not compel teams to play past normal hours, 2 games, or on asian servers if they are not able to.   

yams

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2017, 08:45:37 pm »
I now have an opinion on jumprocks...

The theoretical best game does not have any action that is worth scripting.

Introducing back jumprocks, or even having double pistols being able to be fired at 10 times a second I disagree with.
ez fix (dunno how easy code-side) find a way to double the window for which u can jump in rock throw animation no one needs scripts, you can find a way to incorporate unintended things that add depth(dota 2 item dropping to maximize resources, now you don't have to drop your stuff on the ground!)

Fridays

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2017, 01:16:42 am »
potentially play the two games are encouraged to; just we will not compel teams to play past normal hours, 2 games, or on asian servers if they are not able to.   

You're a complete moron if you think 'encouraging' teams to accomodate for asia/aus is going to do anything. If a team can get away with making the opposition play with a ping disadvantage, every single team will without a doubt. What a joke..


Is the config going to be made public at some point?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 02:26:56 am by Fridays »

Sanchez

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2017, 04:23:38 am »
Some random ideas:

You can force asian teams to play na/eu on times that are reasonally comfortable for na/eu, for example 19-01 workdays, 15-04 saturday, 10-01 sunday, it’s a random example of an average worker free time, obviously there’s people that work during weekend or during the evening but scheduling couple games in 7 whole days shouldn’t be hard if you’re here to play a game that you enjoy. Asians will have to play on weird times like 6am and eu/usa to go party once less or sleep 1 hour less (not extreme sacrifices), that’s it.

You can put a limit of pauses per chapter, so one guy reconnecting 10 times will not be a problem. Or put infinite pauses with a max total pause time of like 3/4 min per chapter.

Also playing single games where the average ping difference isn’t big (example: 95ms vs 120ms) is way more fair than some home/away games (example: home 45ms vs 220ms on server with solid hitreg, away 260ms vs 15ms on bad server).

iamSun

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2017, 05:09:19 am »
I think what we will do is similar to previous events. Plenty of foreign teams still entered, but with the expectation that they would have to conform, not the other way around. nV certainly was a great team Dylan, and they entered many US tournaments under these circumstances, one of which against you RBT. You seemed to have no problem playing them in one US game then. But like Artifacial said, teams that are able to accommodate the asian teams and potentially play the two games are encouraged to; just we will not compel teams to play past normal hours, 2 games, or on asian servers if they are not able to.
As Fridays pointed out - not a single team will play on away server if they are not obliged to do so.

nv- is probably strongest team we ever seen. If teams are equal, ping will play a key role. If other team is MUCH stronger, then it's not that important. It's still huge advantage though. It's so simple, but you really don't get it?

sinclair

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2017, 01:58:36 pm »
I understand the potential disadvantages you guys are pointing out but Sanchez's point holds true, it is simply too much to ask to play at some of these times. So yes, asian teams will be at a considerable disadvantage if they choose to enter but this isn't the UN. Our community is predominantly US and European, with 100% of the funding and administration for this tournament coming from those two regions.

As I said before, [e]Freak is currently expanding further in the midwest US; most likely, matches involving asian teams will be played on denver, with east coast players averaging 60-90, and west coast players having green ping, vs asian players playing with 150-220.

Definitely a considerable advantage, but what I'd like to point out is that we have tried the home / away system for every region, and at least from my experience playing, streaming and administrating SND / eFPS it was plagued with FF's, noshow's and teams forced to get ringer(s) to compensate for teammates being unable to make the match times. I think we have been more than fair, especially considering asian events do not extend the same home / away invitation, but for the sake of the players still left, i dont think they want to (more trouble than its worth) or even can make the necessary accommodations to allow US vs Asia and EU vs Asia home / away.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 02:00:22 pm by sinclair »

Dyl Dough

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2017, 12:08:26 am »
I think what we will do is similar to previous events. Plenty of foreign teams still entered, but with the expectation that they would have to conform, not the other way around. nV certainly was a great team Dylan, and they entered many US tournaments under these circumstances, one of which against you RBT. You seemed to have no problem playing them in one US game then. But like Artifacial said, teams that are able to accommodate the asian teams and potentially play the two games are encouraged to; just we will not compel teams to play past normal hours, 2 games, or on asian servers if they are not able to.

It was home and away. If you see on Rail's Post in that post you linked to it. He says "2nd game in that stream."

Also, regardless of how those rules were in that Tournament, I would have preferred to play home and away in order for it to be more fair. I would much rather play on fair ground than to win against a team that had a huge disadvantage. nv obviously didn't need that fair ground because they were amazing.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 12:12:16 am by Dyl Dough »

Pariah

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2017, 10:38:38 am »
It was home and away. If you see on Rail's Post in that post you linked to it. He says "2nd game in that stream."

Also, regardless of how those rules were in that Tournament, I would have preferred to play home and away in order for it to be more fair. I would much rather play on fair ground than to win against a team that had a huge disadvantage. nv obviously didn't need that fair ground because they were amazing.

It was one game, He is talking about a match involving two others teams played just prior to your match, Hence the second game in that stream vod, not the second game involving Nv and Wolfpack. That RBT tournament was certainly American server only.

On topic; Jay, I don't think this is the time to be catering to specific regions or groups of people, The game is on it's last legs and it's only going in one direction if you start acting in a divisive manner. That being said If the owners of your group want a tournament based in their region then that's completely up to them and nobody can really complain, They are the ones funding the servers.

I'll be honest, the problem with home and away was never the time taken to complete the matches, Let's stop pretending that  everyone participating doesn't have far more than 2 hours per week to set aside for a match. The problem was that there was a bunch of people who would make scheduling a match akin to walking through the fires of hell. That's solved by taking a hands on approach to officiating the tournament - I.e you determine where teams will be playing their matches and don't leave it up to them to squabble about, that's when the problems begin. Best of luck with your tournament but at this point I really doubt you'll get many teams entering this.

Pariah

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2017, 10:39:40 am »
Oops

bueno clinic

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2017, 01:09:18 pm »
gaem is ded, 0ms players win or they suck

Luckylock

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2017, 03:12:43 pm »
Game might be dead, but the forum sure comes sparkling with life when a controversial topic shows up. Heck, even the exiled Danne chimed in!

Although I despise high ping gameplay, for the sake of having more teams sign up, it might be better to apply the "fair" home / away system everywhere, including Asia (or not).

Playing with high ping degrades the experience a lot, but so does having a low amount of teams. I wonder which is worse? That ultimately comes down to "pick your poison". Everyone's different, so no one is wrong or right in a sense. Ergo it's up to the tournament organisers to decide, and we shouldn't give him flack for making a decision like this.

Pariah

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2017, 03:25:02 pm »
Game might be dead, but the forum sure comes sparkling with life when a controversial topic shows up. Heck, even the exiled Danne chimed in!

Although I despise high ping gameplay, for the sake of having more teams sign up, it might be better to apply the "fair" home / away system everywhere, including Asia (or not).

Playing with high ping degrades the experience a lot, but so does having a low amount of teams. I wonder which is worse? That ultimately comes down to "pick your poison". Everyone's different, so no one is wrong or right in a sense. Ergo it's up to the tournament organisers to decide, and we shouldn't give him flack for making a decision like this.

Just busy playing better games nowadays friend.  :)

What you said is essentially the crux of it, if the people who pay to host the servers and are putting their time into running the tournament want to do it a certain way then that's their prerogative. I don't necessarily agree with the direction this particular tournament will take but I recognize that it is completely up to them.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 03:27:47 pm by Pariah »

Captain Falcon

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2017, 03:30:21 pm »
This is obviously a very Trump based config tailored to the weaker North American players. It would be better to leave this tournament North American based instead of trying to force them to make it international.

We should leave the serious international configs and tournaments to more experienced developers such as Sir.

As Danne touched on, it's very easy for a competent tournament administrator to allocate one neutral server that's as fair as possible for both teams to play on and if one is not available then revert to a home/away match. All it takes is some basic geographical knowledge outside of North America as demonstrated by Dragon in the EQ Cup.

(Historically NV ate America for breakfast anyway~)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 03:58:35 pm by Captain Falcon »

Griz

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2017, 08:21:25 pm »
Ok so, this is what the intentions are for upcoming tournaments and how we can structure an actual international community; of course if the represented nation or region is willing to participate, and if they have an actual structured community instead of just random teams, right now as it stands the idea is we all set up or we you could just merge with E-freak, and make our own national community hub via steam and discord, go with a certain list of admins to represent the region and based on that community raise money to chip into an actual prize pool.

The only reason the prize pool was so high during kissme's tournament hosting wasn't due to direct sponsorship of a monolith gaming industry supplier, it was due to money gained through free will donations to see a large prize pool tournament hosted in l4d2, and it produced an amazing display of hyper aggressive skill based type of players from NA/EU scene.

So the problem we have right now is, we're trying to setup an actual community that works together to provide content, meaning right now there are only 2 regions that are keeping the pulse of this game alive by funding the servers and community for future tournaments, and they are NA/EU based, what I'm saying is if there is no funding from other regions then why should they get the money? or why should they get a say so? (if they do win the tournament of course.) It's a constant bleed from the wallets and money of those who've invested just to keep it going from those two regions alone, however if other nations invest, then the burden is split into multiple regions then there is less of a hassle and the load or or less evenly distributed, similar to how weights and balances operate.

The future of l4d2 for international tournaments relies on other communities in RU,AU,JP. It's just time for you guys to step up and work, or try to work with it if you want a say so. At least so we can get an understanding or a clear vision for a structured community, otherwise it just becomes parasitic for lack of a better term; don't jump at me for putting it like that please. But you can see where I'm coming from I hope.


Aside from what I posted above, I have no idea why Danne is a listed outcast. Out of anything that huge hackusation thing was a boost on that ego of his, it's just his skill being demonstrated by gained knowledge and an investment of quite a bit of his time and determination, I used to hackuse players from team nv- because they had better aim than me and understood that you could sometimes see shadows of SI come through walls in some areas of this broken game. It's just summed up in the word empiricism.

As for this Captain Falcon guy, I just have no idea what he's on about. It's like he's actually mirroring to himself his political dissatisfaction and pride of country, and yet he's acting like he's telling us (WHAT IS); (Sarcastic tone) - thank god for him, he's an internet wizard, I just wouldn't ever be able to live my life and strive to be someone better everyday without his truthful and meaningful insights.

I just don't get it why even say anything at all? It's hardly applicable or rational to context, It's like saying "I like peanut butter, can you roller skate? what's the price of beef in China? *Sigh*, at least try to be consistent in thought if you're going to make a post. The one thing he has right is, Sir is a real wit and does a good job in his work for CFGs, oh and also Nv- was a great team.

 

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