Author Topic: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament  (Read 15977 times)

Fridays

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2017, 11:54:40 pm »
If you're going to allow jumprocks, then add a jumprock bind which has a cooldown.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 08:10:33 am by Fridays »

hib

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2017, 12:08:46 am »
Acemod is dead... Whats the point to keep comparing against it...

HB
Zonemod 1.6 already balanced ratio of perm/temp. hb to 80/20. Meanwhile, when removing hybrid system entirely, you are coming back to 'temp. health cannon fodder' tactics.
So, with current 80/20 ratio SI still need to plan and focus on most valuable targets.

Guns
In zonemod guns are already nerfed in comparison with acemod. Yes, its still buffed over vanilla ones. Ok, tell us please whats Promod cvars for guns?

I see no smartness  or not 'press 'W' walkthrough' in this config.
Guns nerffing could be discussed only after cfg would be publicly available or someone will provide a detailed changelog against zonemod 1.6 (currently is a pug/scrim standard).

the 80/20 should be more of a 90/10. The fact that red temp hp people getting like 200+ bonus in itself is rediculous

hib

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2017, 01:40:15 am »
To deal with open areas, add props to it to allow SI to get damage.

If people haven't realized, on dark carnival 1, right next to the saferoom, a bush prop was added onto there to give more options for SI to spawn. I think one way of further balancing it would be to add a small spot near the billboard to allow for an SI to spawn there so SI don't get shut down so quickly from far away.

I, personally stopped playing this game because playing SI seemed really annoying, when hunters got skeeted in one shot in just about every range. And in the following configs: zonemod and acemod, even when you landed your pounce, you'd get rewarded with little to no damage. I don't like the damage output the SI were giving the survivors. In the past, the game was really fun due to the infected's ability to slowdown and/or incap survivors after landing a decent hit. But with the nerfed spitter, it's another story. Why even have a spitter if it's going to be that nerfed lol

Bravo

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2017, 11:15:43 am »
Hi Friday and also anyone else who reads this, I want to make this post as simple as it can be "I think therefore I am" - (Rene Descartes).

Ok so, the title (Promod: Elite) is rhetorical and should mirror to anyones mind what stem of thoughts exist behind the the title and why they are needed to be reimplemented, at least in realistic application to what competition is.
 The reason why we're bringing back promod, all the way down to its scoring system it's because we want to reimplement a system which challenges survivor teams directly, I don't even know why I have to explain this line of reason *sigh* but I guess I have to, so let's start with some reasons why and point out some flaws and also deduct the real issue which is, we're coming from 2 different lines of reasoning, I'm aiming to make this game hard and challenging by intent such being the nature of competition, (the strong rise above and challenge themselves also challenging others). You're aiming to bring equity and balance so everyone can play and make it to saferoom, which is exactly what is killing (competitive l4d2). It has been a crutch for weaker teams but stronger individual players for a while, it puts on a great outward hold W showing but that's about it - (Acemod)

1.(Health bonus)- provides a system of values in which teams can adapt and rotate to positions throughout the round provoking them to think about where they need to be and who they need to cover to win the round, bringing of course a forced unity for the outcome of the stronger and well ordered team. (counter effect)- the infected have to act and re-act as they also are being provoked to infiltrate the survivor team and attack the survivors that hold a higher value, this sets a constant draw on the infected and survivors to apply more thought rather than just throwing SI at others randomly, HB is a matter of wits more than it is about holding W, it's needed for teams to function and maintain interest, and also create a logical and self adapting structure of each and everyones team.

^ (Flaws of HB) However it could be "exploited" in times past by not having doors broken in 1 scratch, also by having deadstops on hunters and there not being quad caps. So we've worked on a couple of those flaws which should now help the SI out a bit, but terrible SI attacks have always been accompanied by just lazy minded people who couldn't understand how to be clever, so they just complained "the scoring system is broken." Then removed the needed attack/defense scoring system to define how teams are rewarded, then when the system of values of attack/defense were removed people just needed to confide in their own skills and that alone, because that's how you would win the meta of (Damage Bonus)/ (EQ/Acemod). (counter effect) well pretty much this is where things got really abstract because the SI necessity to be clever became chaotic almost entirely because there's minimal values to attack, so it became let's count down and dive into the other team, later it became blended with HB though I think.

2.Why is this CFG so hard? The entire design of the CFG (Promod:E) is to go against this idea of equity, (Acemod) - is a CFG that allows everyone to have fun and hold W throughout the map with little punishment for your mistakes, it allows players to function freely in and out around the map using buffed weapons and nerfed SI without ever feeling pressured for your failure or to succeed, it puts all individuals in control of their own dynamics and actions and teaches you to focus mostly on just yourself, I mean Acemod is the ideal CFG for chill easy going invidually skilled PUG players.

^Problem with Acemod is that it doesn't offer a challenge, it's essentially just all about chill and go with it. There's no clear direction it's practically just a haze to pass the time, that's why it's killing the competitive scene because it's not a CFG for competing.

Promod is about punishing you until you overcome that struggle and rise above it, the only way to rise above it though in its dynamics is by team effort and enacting as a unit. The stronger you work together the better the reward should be. If you don't work together you'll most always get wiped, because it's not just about you, it's about how everyone on your team works together to get through the tough demand on you and others skill, Promod is about challenging your true ability of teamwork and making those connections with people, even if sometimes you don't like them, just to get through the map and win to rub it in the other guys faces, that being the true nature of competition.

So suffice it to say I can write more and more, I need to sleep though. I'll be back on Friday and answer questions left, I hope there isn't any, because they are pretty much a waste of time, if you want to play a PUG CFG go play Acemod because it wont challenge you and it's much less stressful.

P.S. Jumprocks are still in promod because we had an idea to make a jumprock key. Needless to say it never happened, also to have a tank without jumprocks is quite dull, the same with bhops, the survivors would just hold W and/or eat a punch away from the tank, the tank doesn't have a way to control a survivor without it. As Luckylock said though there's a danger to scripting again with them being a factor *sigh* goodnight.

At least you kept it simple.

Fridays

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2017, 12:02:52 am »
This config is meant to revive the competitive community but the admins have decided that the tournament will not accomodate for Asian/Australian players (Which have made up 40% of participating teams in the past) because "its too much hassle" to play with a higher ping in those regions. What kind of progress is this meant to be?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 12:24:59 am by Fridays »

sinclair

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2017, 03:52:02 am »
This config is meant to revive the competitive community but the admins have decided that the tournament will not accomodate for Asian/Australian players (Which have made up 40% of participating teams in the past) because "its too much hassle" to play with a higher ping in those regions. What kind of progress is this meant to be?
the higher ping is not the issue. the problem is everything that comes with accommodating an asian team at least. First, it is a given that 2 matches will be required, so you are looking at 3 hours, and thats if its a short vanilla campaign with minimal pausing. the other problem is the time zone difference. combine the two together and it makes it near impossible for north american players and asian players to schedule a 3-4 hour event when you are starting at such times as 11 at night on either side. so you can see, the ping is the least of it.

However, [e]Freak is opening up several new midwest servers this week. What we would do is they would get one game on the closest server, like we did prior to the home / away system when foreign teams entered American tournaments. That and they would be explicitly told not to sign up if they can't play at times that Americans / Europeans can. I'm sorry if this offends you but the ffs are just not worth it.

Dyl Dough

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2017, 07:27:41 pm »
You can easily schedule matches with Asian teams. Asians can easily schedule matches with NA teams.

I've scheduled multiple matches easily over the years with Asian teams and normally they are the easiest ones to schedule. I have more problems with NA or EU teams fighting over which server to use so they get 15 better ms than I have with Asian teams. You sound ignorant. It's not a teams location that makes them hard to schedule against. It's their team composition and their captain that is deciding to be a douche bag and fight over time and location rather than just realizing if they want to play they need to be aware of the scheduling realities from the moment they enter.

If your team mates aren't flexible then you shouldn't have them on your team or you risk forfeiting. Plain and simple.

Everyone should be allowed to enter and have a fair chance to play.

Luckylock

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2017, 07:43:45 pm »
@Dyl I think they're allowed to enter, but they just won't be accomodated for, meaning NA teams won't have to play on an asian server. Also NA teams won't be expected to play at 4 AM.

Luckylock

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2017, 09:14:09 pm »
I now have an opinion on jumprocks...

The theoretical best game does not have any action that is worth scripting.

Introducing back jumprocks, or even having double pistols being able to be fired at 10 times a second I disagree with.

Dyl Dough

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2017, 12:28:53 am »
@Dyl I think they're allowed to enter, but they just won't be accomodated for, meaning NA teams won't have to play on an asian server. Also NA teams won't be expected to play at 4 AM.

Well, NA teams should have to play on an Asian server. That's the entire point of a tournament being competitive and fair. It can't be competitive if the deck is stacked in the favor of one continent and it causes a better team to lose only due to a ping advantage. If their servers are up to date and reliable then I don't see why there's a problem.

Also, I regularly schedule skype meetings with my new boss in Korea at very convenient times for us both. 8pm CST for me and 10 am KST for her. So I don't understand what everyone is complaining about.

Luckylock

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2017, 01:28:27 am »
I would argue that playing with 300 ping (or against 300 ping players) is not an enjoyable experience. It has nothing to do with the fact that they're ''asians'' and no discrimination is being applied here. The simple fact that data takes a lot of time to travel accross the world makes the gameplay not enjoyable for a lot of people. While I agree with the "equal opportunity" philosophy, it doesn't apply here because people (including myself) simply don't want to go through scheduling and high ping gameplay. If you want competition, ideally you're going to have a LAN tournament. These pings turn the game in a complete joke if you ask me.

I've also had terrible experience with trying to play a match against people of China, where they spent a couple HOURS reconnecting and switching VPN because of the Chinese governement firewall while we stuck around waiting because we didn't want yet another FFW. It absolutely sucks for them, and I feel for the Chinese people, but it doesn't change the fact that after that day I would refuse to commit to a match against a team from China. The reality is that the experience of the home / away system is awful for most.

That being said, I'm guessing there's nothing that forces you to NOT play on asian servers if you are willing to do so for the sake of "competitive integrity". But like I said, there's nothing "competitive" about 300 ping gameplay IMO.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 01:36:08 am by Luckylock »

Artifacial

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2017, 02:52:23 am »
That being said, I'm guessing there's nothing that forces you to NOT play on asian servers if you are willing to do so for the sake of "competitive integrity". But like I said, there's nothing "competitive" about 300 ping gameplay IMO.

Curious, but where do you get 300 ping to? In those situations I always just assumed the most amicable solution would be for the two teams to play it out on a neutral server, no? (which tends to be around ~160).

To weigh in on the argument; most of the more enjoyable games I've watched over the years as a spectator tended to involve Asian teams versing NA teams in a home/away scenario. A few years ago when Japanese players were active in the scene, games always provided good viewing. Would be a shame to lose that. As for scheduling - at least in our experience, we've had to regularly bend over backwards to schedule games suited to American time zones, waking up at 6am etc. (no resentment there mind you, we were always willing to do so, as tournaments were mostly organised by the American players, so it makes sense to gravitate more towards American timeslots). I've also historically found it a lot easier dealing with players from Asia than America  :P

That being said, it's obviously up to whoever is organsing the tournament. If home/away is deemed too difficult from a management point of view, so be it. There's nothing stopping us in Asia from hosting our own tournaments.

sinclair

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2017, 02:55:02 pm »
signups and rules will be coming this week. in the meantime look forward to L2L (pending enough signups) next sat @ 7:30

Dyl Dough

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2017, 01:51:46 pm »
If we didn't accommodate for a regions of the world we would have never have had the best team in Left 4 Dead 2 history dominate the scene for years.

nv- - AN ASIAN TEAM

Your reasoning just sounds like you "don't want to deal with it."

Lupee

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Re: Promod, [e]Freak and Upcoming Tournament
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2017, 08:33:16 pm »

 

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