Author Topic: my ideas on l4d2 competitive  (Read 7048 times)

Griz

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my ideas on l4d2 competitive
« on: June 29, 2015, 12:27:14 pm »
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 01:22:08 pm by Griz »

Gray`

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Re: my ideas on l4d2 competitive
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2015, 12:53:28 pm »
My thoughts:

  • Jockeys are already pretty skeetable, IMO.
  • 300 dmg for a sniper, even with l4d1 HR spread is pretty OP. Easy huntard skeets.

Other than that, it looks like a pretty fun idea. I'd play a config like this.

Griz

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Re: my ideas on l4d2 competitive
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2015, 01:02:26 pm »
thanks gray :D

Battle

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Re: my ideas on l4d2 competitive
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2015, 01:06:24 pm »
While i have read the list sir grizz, i point out the ones below in order to prevent WALLOTEXT

"no dead stops for jockey and hunter, make jockey skeetable. "

Already done once in EQ, not sure if it still exists but there quite the substantial shitstorm after the changes were made so may have since been reverted.

""The Sniper" choices AWP/scout, AWP damage = 300 per hit with a headshot multiplier of 2x with maybe l4d1 HR spread. the scout rifle should not be changed it's fine depending on the players preference of the sniper."

Variables far too high, the scout has itself already been modified once as the HS counter is x4 and 125 dam per shot was already considered "too OP" despite the modifyer only comming into effect that those numbers via tank more so than standard SI, and 300 is too high, even with a x2 damage multiplier to Headshots 300 drops 90% of the SI in 1 bullet bar the jockey and charger which after those bullets are near enough dead anyway.

Finally although not direct as theres a few different points you made i guess interms of the teir beginner to pros but spawn timers below 16 seconds are pretty insane if you go near the 14 second mark then you near on lose the point of attacking as a team in alot of instances, and it also makes pickups near impossible as you can continually send spawns in some scenarios, also means after remodification to tank los (now that a ranged weapon is to be brought back in) to grant the tank A)More grace B) not be punished so heavily for the distance / ammount of time survivors spend in LoS positions.

I'm by no means being an intentional cunt here to try cut down your ideas in their prime grizz therescertainly a few that could be expanded on through the correct channels to atleast be tried as a feature, my only criticism comes from the "tried and tested" methods that i mentioned above, but hell im all for change

I have an accent, so i can say what i want

Griz

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Re: my ideas on l4d2 competitive
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2015, 01:27:58 pm »
perhaps reduce the timer of pickups? and I feel as though the AWP being constantly threatend by low spawn timers could create a balance of it's spread and there being no deadstops making it the classic "high risk high reward" weapon.

supra

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Re: my ideas on l4d2 competitive
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2015, 01:32:29 pm »
do it do it do it do it do it

Battle

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Re: my ideas on l4d2 competitive
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2015, 01:49:52 pm »
During the testing phase the AWP was first choice before the scouts introduction , slower fire rate so merits the damage buff but i found the scout conformed more to the meta of the time, ive always been a fan of it though hence my pushing to have it included in EQ, the weapon is very pro n con based sure its great for chipping tanks at range etc, but once something is in your face the weapon loses alot of its use and become quite the crux, probably why ive always found it as more of a balanced alternative to the HR
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Sam

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Re: my ideas on l4d2 competitive
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2015, 02:31:37 pm »
this is the opposite direction that a "high skill" config needs to go.

NativeAvian

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Re: my ideas on l4d2 competitive
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2015, 03:22:26 pm »
Woah this "config" needs a lot of improvement before I can remotely take it seriously.
Not being able to deadstop jockeys is a bit of a huge buff to them. In fact no matter what you do them they will only get worse and worse just remove them in general.
Is the reason for the AWP damage being so high so you can more easily tk your team or is that a typo? I don't see a reason for the dmg to be so high. Just shooting the tank 3 times and you killed maybe 80% tanks before commit.
I don't understand the player roles at all. If L4D worked like an RPG I would understand it more but if the team wanted to run 3 shotties and scout do we tk the shotty guy and take turns using it?
Tri caps only is a bit silly all players regardless off skill level deserves a chance at the best comeback mechanic in the game. Plus it shows off game knowledge when a team is always properly rotating spawns out, compared to the pub mentality of blindly sending everything in every hit.

NF

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Re: my ideas on l4d2 competitive
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2015, 03:52:02 pm »
We TF2 now.

Gray`

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Re: my ideas on l4d2 competitive
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2015, 04:14:00 pm »
Woah this "config" needs a lot of improvement before I can remotely take it seriously.
Not being able to deadstop jockeys is a bit of a huge buff to them. In fact no matter what you do them they will only get worse and worse just remove them in general.
Is the reason for the AWP damage being so high so you can more easily tk your team or is that a typo? I don't see a reason for the dmg to be so high. Just shooting the tank 3 times and you killed maybe 80% tanks before commit.
I don't understand the player roles at all. If L4D worked like an RPG I would understand it more but if the team wanted to run 3 shotties and scout do we tk the shotty guy and take turns using it?
Tri caps only is a bit silly all players regardless off skill level deserves a chance at the best comeback mechanic in the game. Plus it shows off game knowledge when a team is always properly rotating spawns out, compared to the pub mentality of blindly sending everything in every hit.

Given that the AWP is only stated to be made available in high+ tier, I'd say if you incap your teammates it's all on you (or them if they keep jumping into your LOS). TKing to cycle an AWP and run 3v4 in high tier games would likely be tantamount to suicide.

The removal of deadstops is a good idea for higher tier, IMO, as you kind of expect people to rely on left-click more than right-click. At least, that's the way I see it. With the removal of deadstops and lowered spawn timers at high+ tier, I would think that the AWP would be fairly balanced being under constant pressure. Being able to one-shot most SI would be fine, since AWP reload is slow. Only way to know would be to put it to the test.

Lastly, I'm all for the possibility of quad caps each hit.  8)

K3pooch

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Re: my ideas on l4d2 competitive
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2015, 06:59:33 pm »
I think it's definitely worth a go. Mostly to offer a cool diversity that hasn't ever been done before. From what I've noticed, the best teams usually will win on whichever config is played. If you made an all-boomers config, I would bet that you'd still see the same 3 or 4 teams coming out on top. What I'm saying is, I don't see the point in complaining about a new, never-before-tested, relatively balanced (with some polishing) config. It's not like it's going to bring down the community and make the worst teams start beating the best ones, or that promod will stop being played or whatever. L4D2 is still L4D2 at the end of the day.

My suggestion, if you're really dedicated to getting this out there, is that if you can't find somebody who will code it, then learn to code the config yourself, and get people to play it in pugs and scrims. Get feedback and make changes to make it as widely accepted as possible (the way promod developed). Maybe it will suck ass and everybody will hate it. Maybe you'll prove everyone wrong and it's a balanced, fun config that offers a nice twist to the game. If people like it, organize a tournament for people to really see its potential.

Deadstops or not, survivor classes or not, 10 or 30 second spawn timers, the best team will still win. The main conflict I see here is that there will for sure be much less people who want to play a support class over sniper or defense, especially in a pug situation.

Or, I mean, we can keep playing Parish, Carny, Hard Rain on Promod and never speak of this again.

Jacob

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Re: my ideas on l4d2 competitive
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2015, 07:35:06 pm »
Well I guess I'm gunna share my input since I have a few minutes and I've been thinking about this since I read it this morning. Maybe my post will be poinltess and ignored, but oh well here goes nothing.

First off, forcing players into roles is not the way to make a game more balanced, or more fun. Even dota, a game that has roles, is incredibly flexible in that regard. You could play practically any hero from any role if you really wanted to. Your team can have 5 carrys and still win the game (it would just be harder, but valve doesn't force you to play the game their way). Why should we force a player into taking a 35 ammo uzi? That sounds like an awful time for that player. I'm already against forcing players into 1 playstyle and have tried to make the game as open to different strategies as possible. I could rant about this particular point for probably 10 paragraphs but I won't as not to distract from the rest of the changes you proposed.

Time bonus imo does not belong in the game, at least in the way it's often proposed. If anything there should be time penalties for taking too long, but you shouldn't be rewarded for blindly rushing and eating hits. You didn't seem that set on this idea so I won't get too into it, I think everyone can see the pros and cons of this one and form their own opinions.

No deadstops for jockeys / hunters... Why? This heavily punishes taking an uzi (especially a 35 ammo / clip uzi) and leads to annoying scenarios. (How do you counter a jockey rocketing off a roof onto your head? You can't even 1 shot a jockey with a shotgun.) M2s have already been nerfed so hard at this point, I feel like people forget about just how "bad" m2 actually is. Your m2 fov is reduced to 1/3 the original value, and if you do m2 an infected your fatigue is increased by 1 bonus amount. In other words shoving air = 1 fatigue, shoving SI = 2 fatigue. You can realistically only shove an SI twice before having max fatigue. If anything that value should be increased so you can only shove an SI once before max fatigue, but removing the mechanic altogether significantly changes the game.

Using different "levels" of difficulty for a config just flat out won't work. Everyone will play on the "hardest" version, because no one wants to think they aren't good enough to play on it. You might as well only make the "pro" version of it and scrap the rest. For those who don't remember, Pro Mod was originally just a "hardcore" version of metafogl, and wasn't intended to replace it. That's just how things work.

12 second spawn timers imo reduces SI skill cap significantly. Right now I think spawn timers are near the sweet spot. You need to make each hit count, meaning you need to be coordinated and choose your attack points wisely. Lower spawn timers would lead to more random "lol go" attacks.

Choosing your spawn is really imbalanced for several reasons. You could be the shittiest charger and just never play it. That lowers the skill cap of the game. Similar to how we force everyone to play 1 tank, everyone should be able to play each SI.

Quad caps... I'm actually not opposed to them at all, I've been a proponent of them for a while. However I do feel they change the game significantly. At what point are we no different than DLR or any other modded server? Is it even "competitive l4d2" anymore? Or is it something different? Similar to how dota can't be called competitive warcraft, it's just dota. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just some food for thought.

And one thing I kinda barely touched on with quad caps, is that I don't think you are considering new player's entry point into the config. Right now a new player can join a pro mod game and sure they wouldn't know all the details of how health bonus works, or how the tank doesn't pass, etc. But it still feels like l4d2 while playing it. At some point with adding quad caps, roles, etc. it becomes so much harder to get into. Idunno.

Now with all my nitpicking, I don't want you to think I'm just trying to bash your idea. Rather I'm trying to give feedback that maybe you hadn't thought about up to this point. I've been doing this a long time, and I've always been open to trying new things even if it meant me getting bashed. (cough, throwback, cough, pro mod 3.2, cough, natural hordes, cough, bile ~oh you get the idea) So in that regard I support you giving new ideas despite the fact that they are controversial. I just don't want people to bandwagon with the ideas one way or the other. Idk, hopefully my ramblings made some sense and have some sort of value because I didn't have time to get in depth with my opinions.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 07:44:08 pm by Jacob »

Pariah

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Re: my ideas on l4d2 competitive
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2015, 08:05:08 pm »
Jacob seems to have summed it up nicely, something i'd like to point out is that in paper you probably think this is all a wonderful idea if you were to actually be given the chance to play the config you've described though? I don't think you'd enjoy it at all, it sounds like Hentai rape style game ruining. This isn't the path to head down if you want the perfect L4D2 competitive config.

hib

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Re: my ideas on l4d2 competitive
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2015, 10:10:05 pm »
this is the opposite direction that a "high skill" config needs to go.

Sounds like he wants us to play some !dlr config...

Agree to what Jacob said about not being able to 1 shot the jockey and uzi concept.

I would propose setting a melee limit, maybe 2. So, that there aren't too many "melee runners" as Grizz was on Parish map 1.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 10:30:55 pm by hib »

 

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