Author Topic: EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion  (Read 2438 times)

Af-1

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EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion
« on: August 05, 2017, 09:28:32 am »
Hi all, it's been a while. Hope everyone is doing well, glad to see this community is still kicking!

I had the chance to catch game 1 of this semi final match yesterday and had some thoughts that might be helpful for the community to discuss. I should preface by saying that I do not expect any results to be overturned or matches to be replayed, as both teams agreed to restart the map after the issue in question.

G2 had a pretty substantial lead (about 1300) over Florida and was roughly half way through the Parish finale as survivor. I can't provide specific details (maybe the teams can), but during an attack, a death charge occurred. Both teams knew right away that it should not have been a death charge and was caused by a glitch, so they paused the game. G2 mentioned that they were asking an admin to come into the server (which I think was the best course of action, given the situation), but Florida was adamant that the map should be restarted, and so it was.

While I think restarting the map was one way to deal with the situation, it was far from the best. After the restart, G2 asked if they could down two survivors and then reach the point they were at previously, but were met with hostility from Florida, so a complete restart of the map proceeded. G2 was wiped on the first tank just outside the saferoom. This resulted in them having far less points after the restart, which seems absurd since the death charge glitch that occurred was totally out of their control. The momentum shifted heavily from G2 to Florida in a situation where that shouldn't have been the case.

I guess my biggest questions are as follows:

1) Does it not make sense to have an admin enter the server, respawn the dead the survivor, then have his team friendly fire him down to his pre-charge health? To me this seems like a pretty easy way to restore the game to a 'pre-glitch state.'

2) Back when I played, servers crashing and game glitches occurred a lot. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but from a config perspective, has any progress been made in the way of 'match medic' that could have assisted here?

I'm hoping that discussing these may help a team down the road who finds themselves in a similar situation.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 09:34:50 am by Af-1 »

Sir

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Re: EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2017, 09:44:19 am »
Good point, I do find it interesting that earlier on in the tournament a charge that shouldn'tve been a death charge also occured, but the admins said the game should continue anywoo.

Are.. are.. the Admins biased against Ruskies?! No.. that couldn't be! :o
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Af-1

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Re: EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2017, 09:49:30 am »
Good point, I do find it interesting that earlier on in the tournament a charge that shouldn'tve been a death charge also occured, but the admins said the game should continue anywoo.

Are.. are.. the Admins biased against Ruskies?! No.. that couldn't be! :o

The admins never had a chance to give a ruling on this :)

It felt more that G2 got bullied by Florida into a resolution that would only stand to benefit Florida, and maybe it's because they didn't know what other options were available to them.

Sir

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Re: EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2017, 09:54:58 am »
The admins never had a chance to give a ruling on this :)

It felt more that G2 got bullied by Florida into a resolution that would only stand to benefit Florida, and maybe it's because they didn't know what other options were available to them.

Well tbh, they didn't have to restart the round.
They could've just waited for the Admin, they can't physically bully you to unpause.
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Af-1

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Re: EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2017, 09:59:53 am »
Well tbh, they didn't have to restart the round.
They could've just waited for the Admin, they can't physically bully you to unpause.

For sure, and that's why I don't expect anything to change on that side of things.

Was hoping we could discuss the two questions I raised, that way teams in a similar situation down the road might have enough information to challenge a restart. 

sinclair

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Re: EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2017, 10:05:44 am »
while the previous ruling on this same thing was and still is that no restarts are mandatory, restarting the round from the beginning is the closest thing you are going to get. in the case of g2, they could could have chosen not to restart. team florida did not agree to allowing them to reach the same point with the same health... so they had to know there was a chance they could do worse. but the distance they had / would have gotten with 3 people was low enough that they chose to restart.


Code: [Select]
AnEntireSleeve : eh if they want to restart they can but I probably wouldn't have forced it
 AnEntireSleeve : didnt see what happened though
Impu1se_ : they cleared the charger
Impu1se_ : in the air
Impu1se_ : so he died
Impu1se_ : perfectly consistent thing
LightWeightSW : like DT1 from the ladder
AnEntireSleeve : yeh 99% I wouldn't force a restart for that, but it's good sportsmanship to restart anyway

presto

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Re: EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2017, 10:23:48 am »
if we can talk about this death charge can we also talk about how awesome the servers that G2 provided to Florida both times they played are?

Af-1

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Re: EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2017, 10:32:45 am »
while the previous ruling on this same thing was and still is that no restarts are mandatory, restarting the round from the beginning is the closest thing you are going to get. in the case of g2, they could could have chosen not to restart. team florida did not agree to allowing them to reach the same point with the same health... so they had to know there was a chance they could do worse. but the distance they had / would have gotten with 3 people was low enough that they chose to restart.


Code: [Select]
AnEntireSleeve : eh if they want to restart they can but I probably wouldn't have forced it
 AnEntireSleeve : didnt see what happened though
Impu1se_ : they cleared the charger
Impu1se_ : in the air
Impu1se_ : so he died
Impu1se_ : perfectly consistent thing
LightWeightSW : like DT1 from the ladder
AnEntireSleeve : yeh 99% I wouldn't force a restart for that, but it's good sportsmanship to restart anyway

There are no options here outside of the survivors continuing or restarting the map?

sinclair

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Re: EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2017, 10:38:15 am »
if we can talk about this death charge can we also talk about how awesome the servers that G2 provided to Florida both times they played are?
the only thing relevant here is the issue / ruling.


There are no options here outside of the survivors continuing or restarting the map?
i still remember the cevo u ran in 2011. back then tank spawns in the hr3 cornfield werent blocked. ai circle charges were still in the game. so this happened.  for the most part these types of things have always fell upon consent from the other team. as detailed as fig's rules are there isnt really anything detailing glitches and restarts for this scenario (there is for unclearable survivors, but nothing of the nature of random deaths) but this is what i msgd fig.

11:19 AM - jαγ: i dont see a rule but if we were to make one it should be restart at ur own risk
11:19 AM - jαγ: for glitches that kill a survivor prematurely

despite what happened it was still the sporting thing to do for florida to restart. g2 did not return the favor when they asked to play out the finale of the 2nd game at a later time when their 4th had to leave, forcing them to play with 3 si and bot coach, so i would imagine that this issue is dead and gone (efps isnt compelling any restarts so anything would happen at the grace of both teams). 
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 10:42:59 am by sinclair »

Af-1

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Re: EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2017, 10:54:36 am »
the only thing relevant here is the issue / ruling.

i still remember the cevo u ran in 2011. back then tank spawns in the hr3 cornfield werent blocked. ai circle charges were still in the game. so this happened.  for the most part these types of things have always fell upon consent from the other team. as detailed as fig's rules are there isnt really anything detailing glitches and restarts for this scenario (there is for unclearable survivors, but nothing of the nature of random deaths) but this is what i msgd fig.

11:19 AM - jαγ: i dont see a rule but if we were to make one it should be restart at ur own risk
11:19 AM - jαγ: for glitches that kill a survivor prematurely

despite what happened it was still the sporting thing to do for florida to restart. g2 did not return the favor when they asked to play out the finale of the 2nd game at a later time when their 4th had to leave, forcing them to play with 3 si and bot coach, so i would imagine that this issue is dead and gone (efps isnt compelling any restarts so anything would happen at the grace of both teams).

Never expected the results of the match to change, just wanted to find out if there were any better options than restarting, but it doesn't seem like there are.

sinclair

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Re: EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2017, 10:58:58 am »
yeah the post was aimed at presto too. I just wanted to make it clear to him that, unless florida has a sudden change of heart, this particular is decided. As for future incidents, i dont think i've ever seen a match medic type scenario so far in this game. Restarting the map (or chapter if one team was able to play their side successfully without issue) and setting the same tank spawn is the closest thing that would happen imo. the majority of the time its a no brainer for the survivors and a full restart from the beginning usually only benefits them as they cant do any worse.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 11:01:24 am by sinclair »

Dusty

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Re: EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2017, 12:50:56 pm »
Quote
1) Does it not make sense to have an admin enter the server, respawn the dead the survivor, then have his team friendly fire him down to his pre-charge health? To me this seems like a pretty easy way to restore the game to a 'pre-glitch state.'

2) Back when I played, servers crashing and game glitches occurred a lot. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but from a config perspective, has any progress been made in the way of 'match medic' that could have assisted here?

1. Pretty sure you can't respawn survivors, and even if you could it would be huge problem with the HB/DB system.  You'd lose 200 points of damage bonus FF'ing someone down or something along those lines.

2. There is no match medic, players could try to recreate it, but it's a lot of variables.


Alright, and now that I've answered a few of these questions lets go over some of the fun-facts of this game, I'd like to have a little discussion about this game, since it is g2 v florida discussion.

-Even though we played g2 I believe two weeks ago, and agreed to CHI/RUS servers because we had equal pings. Without talking to us, G2 goes to admins and tries to get admins to make us go on NY server for our home match. For shame my friends.

-Russian servers have always been known for their upstanding quality and excellence. But unfortunately randomly shit like this would happen, where we don't get ammo in the middle of the map, and have to take two more hits without ammo

-Tickrate

-I mean, as much as we could have sat and disputed about how shit their server was BOTH weeks we played against them, we had a player who had to leave soon. The admin had told me 99% he wouldn't make anyone restart in these circumstances. Maybe this was a 1% circumstance, but I doubt it. We restarted to be fair because it was lame that he died there. But everytime I've heard of round restarts in l4d2. It has been just to replay the round, Because we don't have a match medic, and we don't have a working respawn method.

Quote
It felt more that G2 got bullied by Florida into a resolution that would only stand to benefit Florida, and maybe it's because they didn't know what other options were available to them.

We were trying to start playing because our player had to leave soon, not because we thought we could bully them into a bad position or take advantage of the situation. For all we know they could do even better to that point. And we knew damn well that G2 would never allow us to play at a later date if our player had to leave, They are shady in trying to get a ping advantage, They've tried shady tactics to get FFW's in other tournaments. I'm sure they'd do the same in this tournament. (As is apparent since we had to play 4v3 with a bot when they declined to finish the game later)



Af-1

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Re: EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2017, 01:16:20 pm »
1. Pretty sure you can't respawn survivors, and even if you could it would be huge problem with the HB/DB system.  You'd lose 200 points of damage bonus FF'ing someone down or something along those lines.

2. There is no match medic, players could try to recreate it, but it's a lot of variables.

This is really what the thread was meant to be about. Some comments by myself and others distracted from the point, but now I certainly have a better understanding as to why not much else can be done for these types of situations.

Oblv

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Re: EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2017, 02:34:11 am »
They've tried shady tactics to get FFW's in other tournaments.
1) They were disqualified for using "shady" custom crosshear.
2) None of the players got any control on the server, so blaming them in spiking tickrate and wrong ammo spawn is wierd.
3) Comparing death charge at dt1 and in this case is strange aswell. How much that bridge is higher then the truck?

The only possible solution would be to respawn player and slay him to the health, he used to have. But it requires admin access on server, which non of teams got.

That was a good close game and its a pitty that it was spoiled a bit by this unpredicted glitch.

Atreyu

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Re: EFPS Semi's - G2 v Florida - Discussion
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2017, 09:19:01 am »

-Even though we played g2 I believe two weeks ago, and agreed to CHI/RUS servers because we had equal pings. Without talking to us, G2 goes to admins and tries to get admins to make us go on NY server for our home match. For shame my friends.

... And we knew damn well that G2 would never allow us to play at a later date if our player had to leave, They are shady in trying to get a ping advantage, They've tried shady tactics to get FFW's in other tournaments. I'm sure they'd do the same in this tournament...

Dang, I thought they changed their behavior after the SND Tournament but that actually sounds more like the G2 I know - nevertheless the situation SOUNDS a bit unlucky and I guess admins should think about a fair way to handle situations like that.

To down the survivors and get back to the point they were sounds good to me - dunno.

 

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