Author Topic: Zonemod and its future.  (Read 7679 times)

Sir

  • *
  • Posts: 915
    • View Profile
Zonemod and its future.
« on: April 08, 2017, 10:31:38 am »
After leaving Zonemod in the ditch for a while as well as L4D2, I've decided to pick the development on the config back up again as well as a spin-off config that will be revealed shortly.
While I want to cater to the demands of the players, my goal is to make the config as balanced as possible.
I don't mind reverting certain changes at all, as long as I get enough feedback and good argumentation as to why.
Previously, unless I begged players for feedback personally, I've never actually gotten any useful feedback/discussions on the config, apart from Server Admins that reported issues with plugins every now and then.

So my question to you fine people of L4DNation is, what would you like to see changed in Zonemod and why?
In case you need to read up on Zonemod's current features: Zonemod Github
Group Owner of :| SirPlease
Config Dev :| Zonemod 1.8

Luckylock

  • ****
  • Posts: 327
    • View Profile
Re: Zonemod and its future.
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2017, 03:04:25 pm »
I'd like to see a spinoff of zonemod to have a "reflux" style.

- Remove spitters and enable quad caps with 2 hunters (reflux style)
- Remove melees or nerf them in a way if people still want them (introduce m2-style cooldowns or something)
- Allow hunters to be m2'd when they run / jump at you to scratch
- Remove damage bonus, it was a mistake. If you end up keeping damage bonus, make bleeding out do damage to the bonus, even in the main config. Solid health should be worth a lot more than temp health, as it is harder to keep.
- Nerf the uzi a bit more, it still seems too powerful imo
- Not sure if it's the case, but remove any weapons limit
- Like dusty mentionned in the reflux thread, rocks should do damage if landed on a smoked survivor.

People don't like tank slowdown, so probably keep that off. If you do end up enabling tank slowdown, then also enable jumprocks. I really like what you did for water slowdown being reduced only when tank is spawned, it makes maps like hard rain and swamp fever better.

One thing that made the game ridiculously not fun lately for me is seeing hunters not even go for pounces, and just silently wait around a corner for scratches, jumping up and down, and landing 3-4 scratches because the survivor can't m2 it away.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 03:29:41 pm by Luckylock »

Sir

  • *
  • Posts: 915
    • View Profile
Re: Zonemod and its future.
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2017, 06:57:22 pm »
Quote from: Luckylock
I'd like to see a spinoff of zonemod to have a "reflux" style.

- Remove spitters and enable quad caps with 2 hunters (reflux style)
- Remove melees or nerf them in a way if people still want them (introduce m2-style cooldowns or something)

I'd rather call it a L4D1 style, but yes, that was the plan. ;)
The removal of melees and addition of quadcaps were planned for the spin-off, but I'd like to hear ideas on nerfing melee weapons without inducing cooldowns or weapon limitations for the main config.

Quote from: Luckylock
- Remove damage bonus, it was a mistake. If you end up keeping damage bonus, make bleeding out do damage to the bonus, even in the main config. Solid health should be worth a lot more than temp health, as it is harder to keep.

While I wouldn't call hybrid bonus a mistake, I agree that it could use a bit more tweaking.
I'll consider your idea and think of other possible balanced changes.

Quote from: Luckylock
- Nerf the uzi a bit more, it still seems too powerful imo

I haven't seen it in play enough yet, testing it by myself doesn't work that well damage modifying.
We'll see..!

Quote from: Luckylock
- Not sure if it's the case, but remove any weapons limit

The only weapon limit is on the Magnum/Deagle.

Quote from: Luckylock
- Like dusty mentionned in the reflux thread, rocks should do damage if landed on a smoked survivor.

Already the case in Zonemod, the spin-off config will be based on Zonemod but in a more L4D1-ish style, keeping its fundamentals.

People don't like tank slowdown, so probably keep that off. If you do end up enabling tank slowdown, then also enable jumprocks. I really like what you did for water slowdown being reduced only when tank is spawned, it makes maps like hard rain and swamp fever better.

Quote from: Luckylock
One thing that made the game ridiculously not fun lately for me is seeing hunters not even go for pounces, and just silently wait around a corner for scratches, jumping up and down, and landing 3-4 scratches because the survivor can't m2 it away.

- Allow hunters to be m2'd when they run / jump at you to scratch

I agree, which is why I tried to make it exactly like you just said in Zonemod's initial release.
Unfortunately, the methods available to detect and block the hunter from getting shoved has issues with properly seperating when the hunter is pouncing and when it's not.
You helped me test this yourself, the hunter was considered as on the ground and not-pouncing when landing on top of a survivor 70% of the time.

In conclusion, we can either block the Hunter from getting m2ed completely or we allow m2 on every occasion.
I did lower the scratch damage slightly however, every bit helps, right? :P

--------------

Thanks for the input, much appreciated :)
Group Owner of :| SirPlease
Config Dev :| Zonemod 1.8

Dusty

  • ****
  • Posts: 266
    • View Profile
Re: Zonemod and its future.
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2017, 02:27:46 am »
FF Limited to (6) or whatever is good
No Godframes
No Gun Limits
Spawn timer set to 15-16 seconds
Consistent quad caps
No hunter M2's
Static shotgun and a bit better than vanilla? Im not sure if acemod/zonemod have any shotgun changes.
Hybrid bonus is fine, but health bonus needs to be clearly worth more like 80/20 split or 85/15? Im not sure something along these lines.
Tank slowdown is fine if people want it in. jumprocks can be argued. Still a script-able glitch that makes tank so much easier.

I'll add more if I think of it.

hib

  • *****
  • Posts: 713
    • View Profile
Re: Zonemod and its future.
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2017, 05:12:36 am »
So far what I'm thinking.. will edit later

-4 pills only & if not, make bleeding out more viable to the gameplay for strategy
- Remove/Keep out Jockey Skeets

Sanchez

  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: Zonemod and its future.
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2017, 09:29:19 am »
-Damage bonus wasn't a mistake, it avoided the classic bs strat where u send *god shotgun* in front to do all the job, especially once he's incapped infected side has to sacrifice like 2 SI to incap him in most cases for nothing, while with damage bonus he becomes an actually single-attack-200-bonus-worth-gangbangable-target. It forces more balanced teams where everyone has to be decent and single really good players won't unbalance that much the overall team strenght.

-With 2x unbashable hunters be careful with what you do to the uzi cause it will be probably anyway a 4x shotgun mod lel

-4 pills only & if not, make bleeding out more viable to the gameplay for strategy
- Remove/Keep out Jockey Skeets
^

Poochie

  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Zonemod and its future.
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2017, 11:18:04 am »
- Remove skeetable jockeys
- Maybe try to fix the m2 on jockeys so you can m2 them off people ? (because it's frustrating when you have to reload and you try to m2 the jockey off someone and it just doesn't happen :^) )
- Change the bonus of Parish map 3 (imo it's worth too much, it's like if you get wiped there it's pretty much gg)
- Make the hunter scratches worth 4 dmg (that might be the best way to avoid people scratching you like trying to make them m2able when they're walking caused a few issues)
- Either remove the damage bonus or change it so the HB feels more important
- Promod type of events because camping is just time consuming and infinite horde is just way more challenging and still gives you a chance to do lots of damage (because for example DC map 4, the event feels idk a bit useless as the horde stops pretty fast so the survi team can just walk up to the saferoom without risking much)
- Melees could be nerfed (I don't think limiting them would be a good idea tho, it just feels frustrating to see people with thier melees out everytime they hear a charger and get a lucky full level 80% of the time )
- Limit uzis to 3

Pierce

  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Zonemod and its future.
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2017, 11:41:10 am »
- Have rock tanks actually do damage on smoked/jockeyed survivors
- Keep rocks passing through common infected to hit survivors
- Remove Jockey skeets
- Bring back the m2 to hunters
- Reduce hunter scratching damage
- Use the promod style weapon system, 3 uzi's (3 being the limit)
- Remove the ability to be able to shoot on ladders (You bring back previous choke points)
- Bring back map events, (Map 2 Parish, Dark Carnival's coaster etc)
- Keep the same format of SI (Yes, keeping Spitter), no reflux, no quadcaps, no jumprocks, and no bhops
- Damage bonus is fine, all it needs is a bit of a reduction and making health bonus more important in the end
- Keep the witch removed. (As zonemod did) so it no longer has to bug out on 1 team and not bug on the other (Example, it incapping a survivor and wiping the team)
- No tank slowdown
- Keep the water slowdown (Zonemod) where it only disables during tank fights, but enables outside of tank fights. (You make Swamp Fever and Hard Rain more enjoyable to play.)
- Melee weapons I think must be a bit nerfed (A very debatable topic)

I'll add anything else as they come to mind

yams

  • ****
  • Posts: 284
    • View Profile
Re: Zonemod and its future.
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2017, 12:39:56 pm »
wallkicks + no m2s pls, keep guns strong to compensate, the game should be about shooting guns & playing infected; if good survivors can't consistently make maps ur basically playing vanilla scoring

faster bleeding less baiting, either this or something else needs to be found as an incentive to move forward, 10 minute+ rounds are painstakingly boring, confogl l4d2 is one of the only games where neither team is given a real incentive for aggression and it sucks dick, ur basically running on the honor system for people to not be lame as fuck

buff scratches or leave them the same

dont limit ANY weapons, weapon limits in a game where pugs r 80% of the game and the community is very small is like pulling teeth and creates tension when Mclovin picks up the weapon i wanted

buff dualies (autofire at a fixed rate, less dropoff/spread, etc at ur discretion)

spawn more deagles

shooting on ladders is ok

if anything make damage bonus/health bonus 50/50 and increase bleed rate/make bleeding cut into DB, if you're going to reduce the value of DB just make it all HB at that point

no witch or vanilla witch, fuk the silly slaps-across-the-map witch

neutral on tank slowdown but if it's enabled, jumprocks need to be enabled, maybe make jumprock window more lenient or even a server side macro (neutralizes the benefits of AHK scripting if you automate things serverside, the tank doesn't need a mechanical skill ceiling anyway)

if you keep melees, remove full levels; they are random, inconsistent, and cause huge swings in attacks

set jockeys to vanilla/promod values fuk skeets

fuk spitters

l4d1 style hunter bhops would be amazing if u could actually enable them somehow, people who go for ground skeets r scum, diverse movement abilities is what makes asymmetrical games fun

no holdout events, i'd literally prefer no events to waiting

sinclair

  • *****
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 1858
    • View Profile
Re: Zonemod and its future.
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2017, 12:43:50 pm »
the only thing that i think needs to be addressed are the hordes. specifically dk4 and death toll4. with no melees and infinite horde and less m2's than ace this is worse than a ladder choke. unavoidable dmg. if you make hunters no m2able then plz add more m2's. idk if its one or 2 less but its very difficult w/ the common. think others will agree.

edit: this is in the wrong thread
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 01:30:20 pm by sinclair »

Itstrue

  • *
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Re: Zonemod and its future.
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2017, 01:09:25 pm »
So basically everyone just wants the game how it was before Acemod. I am glad the end of that config starts here.

hib

  • *****
  • Posts: 713
    • View Profile
Re: Zonemod and its future.
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2017, 03:06:50 pm »
So many changes..you guys realize that people dealth with Hr + 3 uzis, with jump rocking tanks + bunny hopping and etc. It's funny how many changes need to be implemented just to be more competitive lol

I'm not too sure but I think it would be a bit complex to get more players to join the competitive, especially with all these changes being made. It's why eventually this game is going to die quicker. Just do the necessary changes and stop trying to overcomplicate the game by adding in timed events, shooting on ladders and other crap.

List of some changes implemented.
Removal of tier 2s, Buffed Tier 1 weapons
Removal of Haymakers, Removal of Jump Rocks
Removal of Hunting Rifle, Removal of Scout
Removal of Bile, Molotov, Pipe Bomb
Removal of Witches (Zone Mod)
Removal of Spitter (Reflux), Addition of Quad Caps
Boomer Hordes becoming smaller/larger
Tank not passing to teammate, but gets a second rage to the same person
Nerf of Melee Weapons
Removal of Tonfas
Nerf of Spitter, Change of Spitter Spread
Health Bonus Multipliers change, Addition of Damage Bonus
Nerf of Special Infected Scratch Damage
..............

shall I keep going??

Next thing you know we're going to remove map distance and then do health bonus only, or fucking remove health bonus in general and go vanilla +25 scoring with distance rofl

My personal ideal config would be that both sides (special infected and survivor) are to be balanced so either one can triumph using good teamwork. Before with confogl, timers used to be a lot longer and people would communicate a lot more effectively then we do now. Nowadays, people just go in by themselves (i've been guilty of this myself) or YOLO their SI in, only to be like..i got a spawn in 15-16 seconds.. which i find really lazy.


Last but not least. I know alot of people don't like tank slowdown but you need to think about it in a bigger picture. When the tank wasn't being slowed down by uzis (Promod version), the tank was able to move quickly and cut off survivors and catch up to them to reposition for a rock tank. Also, it required people to attack as the tank was repositioning itself (example: Parish map 1 early tank) so the tank didn't get slowed down but also wouldn't get chipped.

My fix to ^:
to readd slowdown but half of what it normally is on promod (would need to be tested of course to find balance)

Jacob

  • *
  • Posts: 2171
  • Actively Killing The Game
    • View Profile
    • Stream
Re: Zonemod and its future.
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2017, 03:41:54 pm »
if ur making something similar to reflux then ima pass on updating reflux, no point in having competing configs that fill the same niche. if you need help / my input on anything just hit me up on steam

Dusty

  • ****
  • Posts: 266
    • View Profile
Re: Zonemod and its future.
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2017, 04:14:35 pm »
What do people dislike about jockey skeets honestly? Old jockey was m2 or die, which is the dumbest shit I ever encountered. It fucked people with high ping and honestly sometimes jockey's just don't give a fuck that you m2 and grab you anyway. It at least gives you a chance.

Quote
if anything make damage bonus/health bonus 50/50 and increase bleed rate/make bleeding cut into DB, if you're going to reduce the value of DB just make it all HB at that point

Why though? Damage bonus was supposed to be an addition to where health bonus is still important but at least if you damage someone without health they lose something as in health bonus, If they weren't gonna be made slow there was absolutely no point in hitting bleeding survivors. It should just be a small amount where health bonus is the main objective. But hitting others isn't worthless.

Quote
I'm not too sure but I think it would be a bit complex to get more players to join the competitive, especially with all these changes being made. It's why eventually this game is going to die quicker. Just do the necessary changes and stop trying to overcomplicate the game by adding in timed events, shooting on ladders and other crap.

Holy shit the since 2015 game is dying/dead meme. Our community is a decent size and many of the same people play, If pubs want to play, making the game more like a pub isn't going to persuade/dissuade them.

Quote
if you keep melees, remove full levels; they are random, inconsistent, and cause huge swings in attacks

Yeah full levels shouldn't exist and I'm happy with melee damage to tank how it was in acemod. Also a fix that actually works so cornered survivors can't get melee's off. If you could cap melee damage to charger, that would be nice. Have it do like a consistent 300.

Quote
-With 2x unbashable hunters be careful with what you do to the uzi cause it will be probably anyway a 4x shotgun mod lel

Well thats only reflux and if reflux is supposed to be anything like l4d1 still then thats how it was played. I mean it could be 4x unbashable hunters and if uzi wasn't nerfed you could still take them. Thing is a laser beam.

How would you guys feel if acemod/zonemod just had quadcaps enabled? I really feel like quadcaps make the game so much more exciting, to play and play against. Theres very little fun or adrenaline in fucking smoker/charge/spit gang-bang. But playing reflux and getting a quad-cap and even playing against a quad-cap is a TON of fun in my opinion. The only thing I can think of would be how would you make it work, with 2 non-capper S.I.

yams

  • ****
  • Posts: 284
    • View Profile
Re: Zonemod and its future.
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2017, 04:18:00 pm »
Why though? Damage bonus was supposed to be an addition to where health bonus is still important but at least if you damage someone without health they lose something as in health bonus, If they weren't gonna be made slow there was absolutely no point in hitting bleeding survivors. It should just be a small amount where health bonus is the main objective. But hitting others isn't worthless.

i mean if you make damage bonus worth less you might as well just remove it is what im saying, if you lower it from what it currently is, its basically a consolation prize for hitting the wrong person.  I think you should shift to either one extreme or the other with more damage bonus or none if you want to enforce a certain type of reward system for infected hitting certain people.

 

A dedicated community website to competitive L4D and L4D2, ran by the community, for the community. L4DNation supports all continents of play and focuses on bringing together the community as a whole to a central hub of information.