Author Topic: What do you dislike about Acemod and why?  (Read 8580 times)

ElusivΣ

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Re: What do you dislike about Acemod and why?
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2016, 04:48:25 pm »
That's an actual game mechanic, not config related issue.

not a mechanic rofl.  a collision physics bug with the rock collision mesh and common collision meshes.  A similar concept related to that is punching common and missing a point blank because the common take the impact of the punch mesh rays.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 09:22:37 pm by ElusivΣ »

Visor

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Re: What do you dislike about Acemod and why?
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2016, 02:54:20 am »
Why do you say it's a "physics bug"? Would you expect real-life physics to neglect rocks passing through undead flesh?
$10 says you aren't anywhere near a controlling position of the L4D3 scene in any continent when it happens.

Thing is he does what he wants, cause his able to and we are letting him do that. He abuses hes place and power in this community and people like me get banned for no reason. Only thing visor wants is more and more control so he can do what ever he wants.

dawkins

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Re: What do you dislike about Acemod and why?
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2016, 04:18:02 pm »
Why do you say it's a "physics bug"? Would you expect real-life physics to neglect rocks passing through undead flesh?
I think it's kind of considered a "physics" bug since rocks pass through and kill things like hunters and smokers, logically, it should pass through and kill common. That's how I see it at least.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 04:21:18 pm by dawkins »

ElusivΣ

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Re: What do you dislike about Acemod and why?
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2016, 09:10:02 pm »
Why do you say it's a "physics bug"? Would you expect real-life physics to neglect rocks passing through undead flesh?


yo let me whip a rock right towards your russian head irl and we'll test my assumption thoroughly. 

« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 09:21:34 pm by ElusivΣ »

sygnus

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Re: What do you dislike about Acemod and why?
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2016, 09:52:53 pm »
Limit or remove melee weapons all together. If you're gonna make a truly "competitive" config, melees don't belong.

boat

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Re: What do you dislike about Acemod and why?
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2016, 11:40:22 pm »
I don't know if a charge spit should only do 15 damage. That seems a little wonky

Visor

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Re: What do you dislike about Acemod and why?
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2016, 02:45:00 am »
The spit will not be buffed in Acemod unless someone can explain to me why exactly this game ia supposed to revolve around charge+spit combos.
$10 says you aren't anywhere near a controlling position of the L4D3 scene in any continent when it happens.

Thing is he does what he wants, cause his able to and we are letting him do that. He abuses hes place and power in this community and people like me get banned for no reason. Only thing visor wants is more and more control so he can do what ever he wants.

hib

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Re: What do you dislike about Acemod and why?
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2016, 03:45:04 am »
Well, here's a bit of an insight from my perspective. Landing two caps or tri caps is fairly difficult, especially to hold them for a long time vs a higher mid to high tier players. This game is basically boring and makes it Tank heavy to get wipes and deal high amounts of damage. Landing a charger in a wide open area and a spitter landing, only to get a joke of damage (5hp) isn't a good reward. The reason why people use smoker+charger+spitter combo is to combat vs. wide open areas, when you have high ping (the asians used this tactic to compensate for chargers being harder to land with high ping by using smoker as a crutch), and to punish separations. I don't agree that chargers + spitters should be rewarded for small choke areas that practically guarantee damage, but that's what baiting is for. Also, since the survivors have the ability to cut tongue and clear chargers, why change it? Since confogl came out, the spitter + charger combo has never been a problem, and people seemed to fairly adapt to do. Before guns had slowdown vs infected which was removed. Making survivors stronger. Made survivors weaker by eliminating m2, etc, etc.

My opinion, I really liked the ideas of what Acemod has moved towards but alas nerfing the spitter was not the right way to go. If gets a good update and is playable with little to no bugs, I'd rather much play promod than Acemod. The best config would be somewhere in between promod and EQ. Adding slightly more damage to spitter, no hunters m2, buff the uzi slightly, make shotgun the same as it was before, add slightly more speed to the tank (than it is now in current Acemod), add back a bit of water slowdown (not too much), no throwables. Melee limit (if anything try by starting to set it to 3 or even 2). Make tank spawns around mid map instead of too early or too late. Spawn timers +1 sec (i feel that though having less spawn timer, it makes it so that players just spawn and go instead of making tactical ideas of how and when to hit). Make deagle do less dmg from a farther distance.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 03:51:28 am by hib »

Visor

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Re: What do you dislike about Acemod and why?
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2016, 04:41:40 am »
You're completely missing or refusing to see the concept of competitive balance, despite being a relatively old player. Being able to wipe a high team with the same ease as wiping a low team is not what you call balance, regardless of what you or anyone else has grown used to. The "habit" kind of argument is not an argument, it's a logical fallacy created by your inability to adapt.

This game was a competitive disaster from the start, because it was never meant to be competitive. It was supposed to be a chill game for casuals. Almost everything in it required either fixing, tweaking, balancing, changing or scrapping in order to bring the whole experience to a somewhat competitively appropriate state. Compare vanilla to any modern config in every aspect and you'll see what I mean.

If you can win with overpowered spitters, you can do so with weaker ones as well, as long as this tweak works in both directions. With that I mean that even if you can't wipe the other team because spitter damage is too low, you can still deal this much damage. But it also works in the opposite direction: they are having a harder time wiping you. So in the end, it's the same result achieved by different means. Instead of having scores likes 3000:2000, you will have 4000:3000, or 4000:3500+ if you really suck and depend a lot on OP spitters. Either way, the better team will STILL win in the end, no matter how dramatically nerfed the spitter is. May as well remove it completely and the better team will still win. But this time around, it will happen in a fair, balanced environment, where most SI combinations have more or less the same payoff, without some of them being obviously better or more preffered than the other.

Try to think logically for once, instead of saying and acting on your impulses as you always do, and you might see what I mean. I'll be honest though, I'm not counting on it. You've been complaining about the spitter since EQ2.1 and not once were you able to come up with a reasonable argument that wouldn't be riddled with logical fallacies, placebo and just narrow thinking. The way I see it, it's such a necessary crutch to you that you'll ditch all the benefits of the better config and return to promod on the nearest occassion, simply for the spit. Be my guest; competitive life expectancy for this game is at all-time low, and after Kissme's cup is concluded, you can lit a candle for it.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 04:47:40 am by Visor »
$10 says you aren't anywhere near a controlling position of the L4D3 scene in any continent when it happens.

Thing is he does what he wants, cause his able to and we are letting him do that. He abuses hes place and power in this community and people like me get banned for no reason. Only thing visor wants is more and more control so he can do what ever he wants.

Luckylock

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Re: What do you dislike about Acemod and why?
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2016, 06:09:41 am »
None of these are game-breaking, just little things;
- Spawn rotations are broken when a tank is up (example: sac boomer, get another boomer)
- When you walk from land to water you get slowed down for a second, and then the "no water slowdown" kicks in.
- There's some sort of reload glitch after climbing ladders where you get the animation but it isn't actually reloading.
- Some maps are worth a ridiculous amount of points compared to other chapters (off the top of my head, there's Swamp map 1, Death toll map 4, and probably others)

You're probably tired of me at this point, but I'm just pointing out little things that you could polish if you ever so desire. Thanks for all the hard work m8, u makin l4d2 great again.

Visor

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Re: What do you dislike about Acemod and why?
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2016, 07:57:18 am »
I'm aware of the shotgun reload glitch on the ladder, but fixing it is a lot of hassle for little gain.

Map distances can be looked into. Offer your values(for all maps).
$10 says you aren't anywhere near a controlling position of the L4D3 scene in any continent when it happens.

Thing is he does what he wants, cause his able to and we are letting him do that. He abuses hes place and power in this community and people like me get banned for no reason. Only thing visor wants is more and more control so he can do what ever he wants.

K0range4

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Re: What do you dislike about Acemod and why?
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2016, 10:56:47 am »
If you can win with overpowered spitters, you can do so with weaker ones as well, as long as this tweak works in both directions. With that I mean that even if you can't wipe the other team because spitter damage is too low, you can still deal this much damage. But it also works in the opposite direction: they are having a harder time wiping you. So in the end, it's the same result achieved by different means. Instead of having scores likes 3000:2000, you will have 4000:3000, or 4000:3500+ if you really suck and depend a lot on OP spitters. Either way, the better team will STILL win in the end, no matter how dramatically nerfed the spitter is. May as well remove it completely and the better team will still win. But this time around, it will happen in a fair, balanced environment, where most SI combinations have more or less the same payoff, without some of them being obviously better or more preffered than the other.

You're correct right here, and perhaps the only logical argument for buffing the spitter I can make is this - When playing the game you want to feel like you're contributing to your team, and/or feel like your SI or survivor is "powerful" or fun to play. It's why M2 is such a meme - because it feels so bad to do everything right on your end (good spawn, well-timed with your team, jump into the fray, maybe coming from a high/difficult damage pounce, or land a good boom, etc.) and have your hard work cleared away by a simple front-cone of invincibility. That's where these most frequent complaints about L4D2 come in and where Acemod has gone in the right direction for about 85% of it. Uzi slowdown made tanks feel like garbage - removed. M2s on hunters, for the most part, made hunters feel terrible - removed. But in my experience while pugging and scrimming the spitter damage is always one of the chief complaints even if it's less logical and more emotional. It's a part of what some players feel like drags the config down.

I don't believe the spitter damage needs to be buffed to promod levels. And you're absolutely right that the current spitter damage is balanced and works in both directions. But for the sake of making the spitter feel useful in Acemod, couldn't buffing it a little bit help make her feel more potent and still remain balanced?

Visor

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Re: What do you dislike about Acemod and why?
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2016, 01:52:34 pm »
I don't believe the spitter damage needs to be buffed to promod levels. And you're absolutely right that the current spitter damage is balanced and works in both directions. But for the sake of making the spitter feel useful in Acemod, couldn't buffing it a little bit help make her feel more potent and still remain balanced?
Unfortunately Source engine does not support double-precision damage values. They are always rounded to single-precision. Because of that, it's either what Acemod has to offer, or what Promod has to offer.

Jacob IIRC had an idea for the next version of promod to make spitter damage variable each tick. 2,3,2,3,2,3 etc. This was supposed to bring the total damage from one spit puddle to smth like 55 (against 48 in AM and 66 in PM). I can't say I really like this idea, not worth it for just a few more damage points. In these circumstances, 48 is fine as it is, minus the godframes and plus prespitting, results in an average of 20-30 support damage from one puddle. Players just need to adapt, that's all. All the issues are inside their head, not in the config.
$10 says you aren't anywhere near a controlling position of the L4D3 scene in any continent when it happens.

Thing is he does what he wants, cause his able to and we are letting him do that. He abuses hes place and power in this community and people like me get banned for no reason. Only thing visor wants is more and more control so he can do what ever he wants.

K0range4

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Re: What do you dislike about Acemod and why?
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2016, 01:56:59 pm »
I wasn't aware of that. If it's between promod values or acemod values, I'd personally prefer acemod. Damn technical limitations!

 

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