L4DNation

Competitive => Confogl & Miscellaneous => Topic started by: sinclair on October 28, 2016, 09:38:09 am

Title: cfg
Post by: sinclair on October 28, 2016, 09:38:09 am
idk what warranted the change but it looks like visor abandoned acemod (i've been told). granted i dont play much and dont watch the matches but from my experience the tank is nerfed to sh!t.

is the consensus that this is better? granted acemod had some good changes but i feel like the tank was nerfed way too much and not only because you can't jumprock anymore (coolest thing in the game).

I'm sure a lot of people complained about gun slowdown making it hard but there was and always has been an easy fix for that. Send spawns in. Reduce the tanks overall speed and remove slowdown and even sending spawns in the tank is still at a disadvantage.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on October 28, 2016, 12:02:08 pm
nope
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: purple on October 28, 2016, 01:44:38 pm
idk what warranted the change but it looks like visor abandoned acemod (i've been told). granted i dont play much and dont watch the matches but from my experience the tank is nerfed to sh!t.

is the consensus that this is better? granted acemod had some good changes but i feel like the tank was nerfed way too much and not only because you can't jumprock anymore (coolest thing in the game).

I'm sure a lot of people complained about gun slowdown making it hard but there was and always has been an easy fix for that. Send spawns in. Reduce the tanks overall speed and remove slowdown and even sending spawns in the tank is still at a disadvantage.

SMG spread increase when moving reduced from 3x to 1.65 and 1.75 (uzi / silenced)
SMG spread increase per shot reduced from .32 / .40 to .20 / .26 (uzi / silenced)
Decreased reload times for both SMG weapons (Original reload time is ~2.23s(for both). New values are 1.75s for Uzi and 1.8s for Silenced SMG)
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Sanchez on October 28, 2016, 02:02:20 pm
I miss those times when players just needed to press W (forward), x (where x is the jumprock script key) and mouse1 (punch) to play a tank.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: manzano_O on October 28, 2016, 04:17:17 pm
I miss those times when players just needed to press W (forward), x (where x is the jumprock script key) and mouse1 (punch) to play a tank.
I'm sorry but my script for jumprock is not in that key :)
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Atreyu on October 29, 2016, 01:27:55 am
Acemod is good how it is.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 06, 2016, 04:31:01 pm
ok so after playing this config for a while i just need to ask some questions.

i already talked about the tank speed. i never saw a problem with the tank in promod. yes theres bullet slowdown but sending spawns it fixes this because they aren't focusing tank anymore. and jumprocks were a personal sentiment of mine and their removal seemed unnecessary especially when all the servers are 100 tic. why not just block wait? but the problems w/ acemod go way beyond this.

no limit on uzi's plus reducing their spread and speeding up their reload time? now everyone takes 4 uzi's for tanks. it makes no sense not too. heck theres really no need for a shotgun when you can just 4 uzi crown a witch. ltd strats yo

allowing to hold out events. one of the focal points for l4d2 were these gauntlent events. i wont talk so much about the dark carnival 3 one as it doesnt seem to be a problem, in pugs at leas because the horde is so much longer and the tank still can do work, so it isnt so much worse than before, but it is still worse. am i the first one to tell you that if you have a tank during these events the horde stops? for YEARS teams were able to fight these tanks and still make health bonus.

oh and congratulations. now 50% of parish games have a tank worse than the dark carnival 1 saferoom. there is absolutely nothing a tank can do against 4 of these new super uzi's on the tower of parish2 before the bus station. how does forcing someone to have a useless tank help? maybe it wouldn't be so bad with the all the buffs towards the smg's but its unplayable now. if these tanks were so problematic why not just block the spawns?

why was removing water slowdown a good idea. you just removed half the chokes on hard rain and swamp. water slowdown provided some form of incentive for surviviors to at least choose whats best, going through land with spawns or going through water slower.

I'm not saying acemod is bad, just not as good as promod. People who say acemod is fine are either
1. new, and acemod is the first competitive config
2. came from playing eq more and it has some advantages over this config where the tank was just op.
3. memorized by the shiny changes. removal of hunter m2 shouldnt make or break a config with so many faults. you can't tell me that you actually enjoy playing half of these tanks.

all of this adds up to config 2x easier for survivors. before the 'sheriff shade you have lost your way rants,' i know a thing or two about this game. survivor in pugs < survivors on actual teams in scrims matches. i can only imagine how a scrim or match on this config would look like. max hb every map?? id really like some relevant response other than 'if you don't like it don't play it.' like i said before, in pugs at least, most people aren't even familiar with promod. and if its one thing that humans are known for its being open minded and trying new things right? 

i know visor might not be able to answer these questions or address any  of these concerns, but that doesn't stop a discussion over some of these sound points. and while i touched on most of the bad of acemod but theres no reason the good of it cant be added to promod.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 06, 2016, 04:36:54 pm
we need to keep you and your anti-acemod fangirls confined to some kind of asylum, most of what you're spouting is trash
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 06, 2016, 04:41:52 pm
well daniel if u were going to go with brevity then i would have said that that a config that is easier for survivors like acemod > A config harder for survivors hwere you have to earn your hb like promod. i personally don't think so but i think thats the only way ur gonna get away w/ brevity.

other than that i challenge you or anyone else to counter the validity any of those points up there.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: fig newtons on December 06, 2016, 04:46:37 pm
I'm not endorsing anything specific that shade is saying, but I do prefer the promod tank: because the survivors are rewarded more for keeping their crosshair on the tank, there is a deeper tactical element involved with whether the infected support can successfully get the survivors to stop shooting the tank or not. In acemod that is largely irrelevant since there is no tank slowdown from pain. Also, acemod tank can be solo'd by the one survivor left up which is just dumb.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: World of Noise on December 06, 2016, 04:50:36 pm
I think Acemod is way easier for survivors than Promod was. Tank is no fun in Acemod and I feel just including more spawns into Acemod would have balanced it out way more.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: ElusivΣ on December 06, 2016, 05:23:00 pm
most servers still offer promod in their config list.  game is muerto so honestly imo it's not worth givin a fuck about config pros/cons at this point.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: fig newtons on December 06, 2016, 05:25:05 pm
most servers still offer promod in their config list.  game is muerto so honestly imo it's not worth givin a fuck about config pros/cons at this point.
You're not wrong, but it's still useful to gauge opinion for any future tournaments and etc.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: ElusivΣ on December 06, 2016, 05:28:30 pm
You're not wrong, but it's still useful to gauge opinion for any future tournaments and etc.

word I agree.  But i don't see a plethora of niggas or girls players signing up for anything.  L4D2 is just pugs now, nothing more.


we need to keep you and your anti-acemod fangirls confined to some kind of asylum, most of what you're spouting is trash

damn son chill he's just speakin his opinions.  this mothafucka poppin off caps in broad daylight for just opinions :P
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 06, 2016, 06:13:50 pm
like i said i know most servers have both. but most people wont even consider touching promod based on habit whether they havent played promod before or because acemod is just the norm now and they dont question it. but when you break things down the parish 2 tank isnt fun on either sides. facing 4 OP Uzi's isn't fun on either side of any tank.

the point of this thread is getting down to why. daniel serves as an excellent example, i make well thought out, points. some black and white, some subjective and up for debate. his defense is typically what you get when you suggest promod: some sort of insult not relating to the actual points. 2nd most thing il hear is how hunters cant be m2'd and how annoying that is in promod but it doesnt outweigh everything else.

just because it just seems to be pugs now doesnt mean things cant be addressed. a lot of people still pug this game and im still convinced theres more now than ever (Pugging at least).
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: ElusivΣ on December 06, 2016, 07:00:38 pm
like i said i know most servers have both. but most people wont even consider touching promod based on habit whether they havent played promod before or because acemod is just the norm now and they dont question it. but when you break things down the parish 2 tank isnt fun on either sides. facing 4 OP Uzi's isn't fun on either side of any tank.

the point of this thread is getting down to why. daniel serves as an excellent example, i make well thought out, points. some black and white, some subjective and up for debate. his defense is typically what you get when you suggest promod: some sort of insult not relating to the actual points. 2nd most thing il hear is how hunters cant be m2'd and how annoying that is in promod but it doesnt outweigh everything else.

just because it just seems to be pugs now doesnt mean things cant be addressed. a lot of people still pug this game and im still convinced theres more now than ever (Pugging at least).

word. So then just pug and post promod idk what to tell you.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 06, 2016, 07:19:51 pm
word. So then just pug and post promod idk what to tell you.
yeah that happens sometimes. dont know how it was received when it came out but a hybrid of the best of these two would require very little effort for someone who knows how. the problem is the bridge breaking the norm. so whats wrong with seeing what people think of acemod right now? id rather have more people defending it here and telling me why than people supporting me saying im right tbh. 

 
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: High Cookie on December 06, 2016, 08:02:24 pm
The Australian community prefer acemod.

The latest acemod has created isssues with the Suzi / Uzi but we are editing our config to make shotguns viable, which has the roll on effect into fixing pointless tanks.

I don't know what you can do in NA though as there's a lot of servers looked after by different people


Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 06, 2016, 08:08:41 pm
The Australian community prefer acemod.

The latest acemod has created isssues with the Suzi / Uzi but we are editing our config to make shotguns viable, which has the roll on effect into fixing pointless tanks.
 

finally an actual response! I dont know how we got from 3 uzi's in promod, max, to no limit on them and buffing both their spread and reload time. this one 'problem' definitely exacerbates the other ones i mentioned. did ANYONE think that they needed to be stronger then they already were?? doesnt compute for me
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: High Cookie on December 06, 2016, 08:55:04 pm
Acemod V3 was very shotgun heavy.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Dusty on December 06, 2016, 10:27:01 pm
Quote
But i don't see a plethora of niggas or girls players signing up for anything.  L4D2 is just pugs now, nothing more.

Well I mean, there is no event to sign up for currently and he said future events. People been saying game is dead since like 2013 but I mean the biggest tournament we had in a while was only a few months ago.

Onto some actual points in the thread.

Quote
because the survivors are rewarded more for keeping their crosshair on the tank, there is a deeper tactical element involved with whether the infected support can successfully get the survivors to stop shooting the tank or not. In acemod that is largely irrelevant since there is no tank slowdown from pain. Also, acemod tank can be solo'd by the one survivor left up which is just dumb.

I mean there is still the tactical element that tank takes no damage when he doesn't get shot, because SI correctly distract/get survivors to stop shooting tank.

Also, how is acemod tank more susceptible to being solo'd by the one survivor? Wouldn't it be easier in promod with slowdown on every shot and melee's doing 500 damage or whatever it was a swing? Are we speaking of jumprocks being the difference?

Quote
I think Acemod is way easier for survivors than Promod was. Tank is no fun in Acemod and I feel just including more spawns into Acemod would have balanced it out way more.


I mean, we are talking about tank getting buffed with no slowdown, and survivor getting melee's against tank nerfed. While tank lost jumprock, and while actually manually doing a jumprock was a skill, jumprocking was a pretty overpowered move. It made bad tank players be punished less for not knowing how to play tank (my opinion). and it was abused by people using scripts, which wasn't just wait commands or as simple as blocking them. I feel like the problem at hand is with the buff of the uzi, the quicker reload, we did not seem to think how much of an effective increase on tank dps this would be.

Quote
I'm not saying acemod is bad, just not as good as promod. People who say acemod is fine are either
1. new, and acemod is the first competitive config
2. came from playing eq more and it has some advantages over this config where the tank was just op.

Config overall has made a change for the better in my opinion, I still feel like there is zero strategic value in being able to wait out horde of event tanks, because there is no option. In acemod now, the horde doesn't stop unless you kill it all even if tank spawns, So your 2 options are.

1. Wait out event horde.
2. Run and kill yourself for distance.

Yes being able to wait out some hordes was a good decision, but the option to push was totally removed when horde continued even during tank spawns.


EDIT: Also forgot to say that I believe that a reason a lot of people see survivor as easier is because of the nerf to spit and especially spit charges. In the old days you basically get pull/spit charged or just any combo of gang bang spit charge and it's 60 damage. The system now is a lot more balanced. The way the health bonus and damage bonus system works to show who is a better team only works if survivors survive maps.

Title: Re: cfg
Post by: ElusivΣ on December 06, 2016, 10:41:09 pm
I mean, we are talking about tank getting buffed with no slowdown, and survivor getting melee's against tank nerfed. While tank lost jumprock, and while actually manually doing a jumprock was a skill, jumprocking was a pretty overpowered move. It made bad tank players be punished less for not knowing how to play tank (my opinion). and it was abused by people using scripts, which wasn't just wait commands or as simple as blocking them. I feel like the problem at hand is with the buff of the uzi, the quicker reload, we did not seem to think how much of an effective increase on tank dps this would be.

highly agreed 100%
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: supra on December 06, 2016, 11:31:45 pm
word up homedawg g we can't be out poppin off shots w/ our gats in mid daylight homie g, so word up ya feel me

(http://imgur.com/ujNqRBJ.gif)
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Bravo on December 06, 2016, 11:33:05 pm
word up.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: ElusivΣ on December 07, 2016, 12:39:12 pm
word up homedawg g we can't be out poppin off shots w/ our gats in mid daylight homie g, so word up ya feel me

([url]http://imgur.com/ujNqRBJ.gif[/url])


word up.


(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKplHE8tjPcvkcw/giphy.gif)


@Shade
I have no problems with acemod or whatever config.  the current versions are fine with me.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Twisted on December 07, 2016, 12:58:44 pm
i just want my jump rocks and being able to rock tank without worrying about 4 suzi's with no spread banging me.


(most tanks now are fucking boring too, especially parish 2)

Title: Re: cfg
Post by: fig newtons on December 07, 2016, 01:18:13 pm
I mean there is still the tactical element that tank takes no damage when he doesn't get shot, because SI correctly distract/get survivors to stop shooting tank.
Yeah, obviously... both configs have that. But only promod has the additional mechanism of reward/punishment for strong/weak play: clearing your SI fast means you get more slowdown on the tank. Clearing SI slowly (or being hypnotized by the pouncing hunter when you should be shooting the tank) means your teammate has to juke a fast tank.

Also, how is acemod tank more susceptible to being solo'd by the one survivor? Wouldn't it be easier in promod with slowdown on every shot and melee's doing 500 damage or whatever it was a swing? Are we speaking of jumprocks being the difference?
Two things:

1. Slowdown from only 1 survivor shooting the tank usually isn't enough to make it as slow as the acemod tank
2. You have to reload, so while you're reloading the tank will catch you and start punching you

We're talking about the margins here so nothing is certain, but this makes the difference between a wipe and an "almost-wipe" pretty regularly IME.

I mean, we are talking about tank getting buffed with no slowdown, and survivor getting melee's against tank nerfed.
I'm on the fence about the melee thing. I wouldn't mind if promod introduced that fix honestly.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 07, 2016, 02:19:23 pm
An interesting note is that the active (and good?) players seem to all prefer acemod, A few inactive players who hardly play the game and aren't really that sure that what they are saying has any kind of truth to it are the ones vouching for promod.

The notion that the tank is somehow slower in acemod is just a delusion, what was the deduction in speed.. 5 units? something like that? I'd take that small speed reduction in exchange for no slowdown that would put me down 30 units of speed any day of the week. The tank is not slower in acemod in actuality, base speed yes but that just isn't the reality of it, this isn't the olympics where two tanks labeled acemod and promod are running down a track in a straight line without any survivor interference. The promod tank crawls along the floor like a sloth while it's being railed with uzis in promod, The speed comparison is almost entirely obselete -  the change doesn't have even a fraction of the impact that you promod lovers seem to think.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Feather on December 07, 2016, 03:08:33 pm
Does anyone even play promod v5?  Why not just throw 3.6.1 or something on the servers instead?

Make L4D2 great again?  lol
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 07, 2016, 03:16:42 pm
An interesting note is that the active (and good?) players seem to all prefer acemod, A few inactive players who hardly play the game and aren't really that sure that what they are saying has any kind of truth to it are the ones vouching for promod.


is this really the case? id much rather see more ppl speak for themselves.

 you keep making blanket statements without saying why. dont see how theres no truth to it. the uzi's are stronger without a doubt. late parish 2 tank seems undeniably egregious. and why is a stronger uzi with less recoil, no limit and faster reload better? i thought we were making some progress when we realized the promod uzi was too OP and was limited to 3.



The notion that the tank is somehow slower in acemod is just a delusion, what was the deduction in speed.. 5 units? something like that? I'd take that small speed reduction in exchange for no slowdown that would put me down 30 units of speed any day of the week. The tank is not slower in acemod in actuality, base speed yes but that just isn't the reality of it, this isn't the olympics where two tanks labeled acemod and promod are running down a track in a straight line without any survivor interference. The promod tank crawls along the floor like a sloth while it's being railed with uzis in promod, The speed comparison is almost entirely obselete -  the change doesn't have even a fraction of the impact that you promod lovers seem to think.

i feel like this might be subjective but i agree with how fig worded it above.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: NF on December 07, 2016, 05:04:06 pm
Slowdown mechanics just aren't fun to experience regardless if it is "balanced".

See also: Mei in Overwatch, Natascha in TF2, etc.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Simon on December 07, 2016, 05:41:51 pm
Hi, I just got off the toilet which is my place where I do my thinking for these kind of threads.

Speaking as an international player that mainly plays with red ping most of the time and seeing as how international this game is and is surprisingly a game that is still playable with high ping,  acemod is definitely more balanced for high ping players.

Promod enables the low ping players to just grab a shotgun, hold w and m2 everything in sight as they go on their merry way.

With acemod it evens out because you can't m2 hunters and the uzis are actually good which means that even with high ping you can actually kill stuff as opposed to using a shotgun which 80% of the time doesn't do much with red ping.

Coming to rocks is another thing that is in favor of low ping players, in promod a lot of the tanks you will have to play a rock tank which is significantly harder with high ping as everyone knows, it's much harder to curve and you can't even change the placement of the rock at the last second. In acemod you can simply roll in as theirs no slowdown and we have long arms so you can still do decent damage.

Now slowdown is the most retarded thing I've heard of compared to acemod and I fail to understand why anyone would want it back.

First of all, most people know that even a single person shooting at the tank when he goes for a punch will slow him down enough for you to juke or make him whiff and get away.

Most commits, the tank will get rekt by 3 uzis and massive slowdown and by the time he has moved 2cm from his original position, the tank realizes hes fucked and this is the point he goes for his last ditch jump rock whilst still getting railed by the uzis. If he lands it, he tells his buddies in mumble that he landed his 1 jump rock and that it was a good tank.

As Danne said, it's hard to believe that people think acemod tanks are slower than promod tanks in an actual game. While the promod tank does move at the same speed as the survivors base speed yes, the slowdown is so bad that he barely moves at all while the survivors can still run away.

Then the argument comes that SI come in to distract and survivors have to reload, right but were forgetting that when the tank is not getting shot at he does not get a magical adrenaline speed boost to instantly catch up the the survivors, he simply starts running at the same speed as the survivors to try and cover the massive gap that has been created while survivors are still running away at the same speed before getting shot at again.

Acemod the tank simply moves slightly slower than the survivors at all times which I believe is 10 units slower (220 vs 210) which means the gap between survivors and tank is much smaller compared to promod and he does not feel the effects of slowdown at all which even makes sense as the tank is bigger and heavier so he moves slightly slower but he doesn't feel the effect of bullets (especially from 1 person). This generally means in acemod tanks are a lot harder for survivors.

Also, the only reason uzis are limited in promod is because of the ridiculous slowdown which is not the case in acemod.

I agree that acemod is not perfect and I don't like some of the changes but it is a superior config to promod and a step in the right direction in general.

Another thing to note that from a competitive standpoint, besides changes that affect low ping vs high ping, both teams take turns at playing the exact same scenarios with the same conditions so regardless of the config, the better and smarter team will always win anyway.

Left 4 Dead is not like dota where there are new heroes and items etc being introduced that need to to be constantly re-balanced and adjusted. A lot of the changes made to configs in l4d were just because they could make changes even if they weren't needed. This game should of had an balanced config settled on long ago but here we are still trying to think of new ways to change it. This is a problem I see with a lot of community made games and content.

Finally I pray that L4D3 will have a decent competitive versus mode built in omitting retarded changes that doesn't need tweaking and everyone can stick to universally.

I would end by borrowing a similar quote from another game: "I fear the day when there are 736 configs and 4 players".

Thx 4 read my toilet thoughts.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: NF on December 07, 2016, 05:51:00 pm
I don't know why people are even bringing up Promod at all.

It is an outdated, obsolete and abandoned config.

Do people still argue about the benefits of Metafogl and Jayfogl?

And just btw, there were plans to remove slowdown from Promod before it was abandoned. The Tanks in both configs would've been the same.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 07, 2016, 06:04:58 pm
Another thing to note that from a competitive standpoint, besides changes that affect low ping vs high ping, both teams take turns at playing the exact same scenarios with the same conditions so regardless of the config, the better and smarter team will always win anyway.

thanks for posting, i respect most of your opinion but right here, this is perhaps the worst argument one could make. ignoring this argument is why t2 was removed. just because both sides get it doesnt negate how egregious things can be. and what we have here are OP survivors. games in scores are always going to be artificially closer if thats the case. make survivor harder and there will be a more well deserved spread in score. in my opinion of course.

im sure a lot of what i said was subjective but il return again to the late parish 2 tank. i always considered parish the tankplay map, hardrain being so open essentially the hr map (rip) and dark carnival a survivor sided map. thats really no longer the case. most of the parish tanks are castrated with this, specifically the late one where survivors can get to the tower and force the tank to break sight. shouldnt it be the other way around?
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 07, 2016, 06:08:58 pm
I don't know why people are even bringing up Promod at all.

It is an outdated, obsolete and abandoned config.

 

isnt acemod as well? obviously the first two things you said are subjective but in terms of objective comparison, promod and acemod are both abandoned.

why is it so hard to understand a discussion that weighs the pros and cons of each.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: NF on December 07, 2016, 06:35:14 pm
isnt acemod as well? obviously the first two things you said are subjective but in terms of objective comparison, promod and acemod are both abandoned.

why is it so hard to understand a discussion that weighs the pros and cons of each.

Fair enough, I wasn't aware anyone played Promod still.

Maybe a middle ground config could be made that has benefits of both configs.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 07, 2016, 06:42:31 pm
Fair enough, I wasn't aware anyone played Promod still.

Maybe a middle ground config could be made that has benefits of both configs.
thats what ive been saying. while there are acemod diehard fans like daniel, like i said before most ppl play acemod if only based on habit. 

there are definitely some benefits of each. but was it really necessary to make these super uzi's with faster reload time, less spread and no limit? apart from not being able to m2 hunters theres no reason to take shotgun really anymore. teams can 4 uzi crown witches very easy. if the witch is dead forget it. by this configs strategy, there is no incentive not to go 4 uzi.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Bravo on December 07, 2016, 08:21:33 pm
Hi, I just got off the toilet which is my place where I do my thinking for these kind of threads.

Speaking as an international player that mainly plays with red ping most of the time and seeing as how international this game is and is surprisingly a game that is still playable with high ping,  acemod is definitely more balanced for high ping players.

A game is not balanced around the idea of what would happen if someone with high ping comes to play

Promod enables the low ping players to just grab a shotgun, hold w and m2 everything in sight as they go on their merry way.

What makes this not possible in Acemod? the hunter you cant m2? come on....

With acemod it evens out because you can't m2 hunters and the uzis are actually good which means that even with high ping you can actually kill stuff as opposed to using a shotgun which 80% of the time doesn't do much with red ping.

Yeah, a more powerful gun kills things much faster with higher ping, so what?

Coming to rocks is another thing that is in favor of low ping players, in promod a lot of the tanks you will have to play a rock tank which is significantly harder with high ping as everyone knows, it's much harder to curve and you can't even change the placement of the rock at the last second. In acemod you can simply roll in as theirs no slowdown and we have long arms so you can still do decent damage.

Again, obviously higher ping will be difficult in almost any game.  Whats your point, the fact that you can use your high ping with no slowdown as advantage?  ???

Now slowdown is the most retarded thing I've heard of compared to acemod and I fail to understand why anyone would want it back.

One reason could be in the hands of a competent team slowdown would become an obstacle the si would have to acknowledged and instead of randomly throwing themselves at whoever, they could maybe use strategy/team play to go for certain individuals.  Basically adding a skill ceiling.

First of all, most people know that even a single person shooting at the tank when he goes for a punch will slow him down enough for you to juke or make him whiff and get away.

If you're juking a tank that's corning for you and he misses his timing because you're slowing him down you're not feeling the effects of the config, its the game play of the tank.  Honestly when I recall playing promod tanks missing corners and fucking their timings up are the same tanks who still do it without slowdown so that is a testament to the player.

Most commits, the tank will get rekt by 3 uzis and massive slowdown and by the time he has moved 2cm from his original position, the tank realizes hes fucked and this is the point he goes for his last ditch jump rock whilst still getting railed by the uzis. If he lands it, he tells his buddies in mumble that he landed his 1 jump rock and that it was a good tank.

What....??

As Danne said, it's hard to believe that people think acemod tanks are slower than promod tanks in an actual game. While the promod tank does move at the same speed as the survivors base speed yes, the slowdown is so bad that he barely moves at all while the survivors can still run away.

Oh man, there must have been no damage or wipes in the past then

Then the argument comes that SI come in to distract and survivors have to reload, right but were forgetting that when the tank is not getting shot at he does not get a magical adrenaline speed boost to instantly catch up the the survivors, he simply starts running at the same speed as the survivors to try and cover the massive gap that has been created while survivors are still running away at the same speed before getting shot at again.

Bro, survivors arent playing in a fucking tunnel holding S, the time that was used when committing was him picking a target and going for a corner usually, when SI come in he isnt still 10 fucking miles away.

Acemod the tank simply moves slightly slower than the survivors at all times which I believe is 10 units slower (220 vs 210) which means the gap between survivors and tank is much smaller compared to promod and he does not feel the effects of slowdown at all which even makes sense as the tank is bigger and heavier so he moves slightly slower but he doesn't feel the effect of bullets (especially from 1 person). This generally means in acemod tanks are a lot harder for survivors.

Please dont bring logic into this, he is bigger so he has to move slower? ok, hes getting shot so he has to move slower as well  ;)

Also, the only reason uzis are limited in promod is because of the ridiculous slowdown which is not the case in acemod.

Yeah, instead they're spread is reduced and you barely have a reload time. good points, good points.

I agree that acemod is not perfect and I don't like some of the changes but it is a superior config to promod and a step in the right direction in general.

What is the direction? different opinions are always implemented and stay/go because of the popularity they receive.  A while back the dark carnival finale had a forklift set in front of the stage for easier access, after fever got wiped and cried about it on the forums it was removed.  These are nothing but what certain individuals want implemented into the game and sometimes have no correlation to what would make a better COMPETITIVE game.

Another thing to note that from a competitive standpoint, besides changes that affect low ping vs high ping, both teams take turns at playing the exact same scenarios with the same conditions so regardless of the config, the better and smarter team will always win anyway.

You gotta be joking me.... lets roll a dice 5 times each, whoever gets the highest sum wins.  shits fair dawg.

Left 4 Dead is not like dota where there are new heroes and items etc being introduced that need to to be constantly re-balanced and adjusted. A lot of the changes made to configs in l4d were just because they could make changes even if they weren't needed. This game should of had an balanced config settled on long ago but here we are still trying to think of new ways to change it. This is a problem I see with a lot of community made games and content.

Whoa.... I agree

Finally I pray that L4D3 will have a decent competitive versus mode built in omitting retarded changes that doesn't need tweaking and everyone can stick to universally.

I would end by borrowing a similar quote from another game: "I fear the day when there are 736 configs and 4 players".

Thx 4 read my toilet thoughts.

None of this means I prefer promod over Acemod but if you're going to make arguments just dont fail to see the other side as well.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: 3yebex on December 07, 2016, 08:56:18 pm
i just want my jump rocks and being able to rock tank without worrying about 4 suzi's with no spread banging me.


(most tanks now are fucking boring too, especially parish 2)
Instead of reverting the Uzi back to it's useless vanilla form and being completely overshadowed by the shotgun which can one shot 5 of the 6 SI now in Acemod (Skeet Jockeys, why?), we should look into changing dropoff damage. Currently both the Uzi and the Shotgun do ridiculously decent damage at even medium range. Even at long range the Shotgun is still dealing around 50 - 70 damage per shot, which while that doesn't' sound like such a problem for the Tank it definitely is a problem for the SI which have lower health pools. If you reduce the drop off damage of both the shotgun and the uzi dramatically, we can still keep the current weapon spreads of both weapons.

Furthermore, since we've increased the accuracy of both weapons in the game right now I think it's save to say you should get rid of the crouching accuracy multiplier. I barely, if at all, applies to the shotgun and it's no longer needed for the uzi since you can maintain proper accuracy without setting up a tent and lighting a campfire.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Bravo on December 07, 2016, 09:39:05 pm
Instead of reverting the Uzi back to it's useless vanilla form and being completely overshadowed by the shotgun which can one shot 5 of the 6 SI now in Acemod (Skeet Jockeys, why?), we should look into changing dropoff damage. Currently both the Uzi and the Shotgun do ridiculously decent damage at even medium range. Even at long range the Shotgun is still dealing around 50 - 70 damage per shot, which while that doesn't' sound like such a problem for the Tank it definitely is a problem for the SI which have lower health pools. If you reduce the drop off damage of both the shotgun and the uzi dramatically, we can still keep the current weapon spreads of both weapons.

Furthermore, since we've increased the accuracy of both weapons in the game right now I think it's save to say you should get rid of the crouching accuracy multiplier. I barely, if at all, applies to the shotgun and it's no longer needed for the uzi since you can maintain proper accuracy without setting up a tent and lighting a campfire.

Man the deagle in csgo can one shot a fully bought up awper with 7k+ invested in the round, remove that shit.  The sample size of this community is way too low and the skill just isnt there.  The uzi was not useless, the kids holding it were.  Funny how for 2-3 years better players who dont play anymore never complained about guns being under powered, instead it was always HR is op, T2 is op.  I love the 5 out of 6 thing btw, boomers and spitters shouldnt be able to get one shot, you're right, and Im sure you get yourself into situations where you're rubbing dicks with the smoker to one shot him instead of taking a second to spray him down with an smg.  While we are on the subject of disregarding the strengths of an automatic weapon did you know shotguns can ONE SHOT WITCHES BRO? LEL, ADD THAT SHIT TOO!
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 07, 2016, 10:26:41 pm
the only buff the uzi needed from vanilla was the ammo buff
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Dusty on December 07, 2016, 10:44:37 pm
Quote
and what we have here are OP survivors. games in scores are always going to be artificially closer if thats the case. make survivor harder and there will be a more well deserved spread in score. in my opinion of course.

This doesn't make sense, why would making survivor harder effect spreads in scores? We have a system that works based on healthbonus/damage bonus and is only in effect when survivors make saferoom. Do you or noone remember the statistics we had of how much people wiped on promod? It was ridiculously high.

Quote
thats what ive been saying. while there are acemod diehard fans like daniel, like i said before most ppl play acemod if only based on habit. 

You tell people not to make blanket statements yet make blanket statements about why people choose to play the config, If people didn't want to play acemod they could not play the pug or mix, they could call a vote for a different config, or not play l4d2. But If Im not wrong, the pug scene seems to be more alive than I can remember in a long time. I find it more fun and Im sure others would agree.

Quote
Yeah, obviously... both configs have that. But only promod has the additional mechanism of reward/punishment for strong/weak play: clearing your SI fast means you get more slowdown on the tank. Clearing SI slowly (or being hypnotized by the pouncing hunter when you should be shooting the tank) means your teammate has to juke a fast tank.

I mean, Isn't shooting the tank and getting damage, or clearing you teammates so they can shoot tank/not take damage reward enough? if your S.I. distract that takes damage away from what your tank would have taken, is that not punishment for weak/strong play?

Quote
Two things:

1. Slowdown from only 1 survivor shooting the tank usually isn't enough to make it as slow as the acemod tank
2. You have to reload, so while you're reloading the tank will catch you and start punching you

1.I'm positive that slowdown from one uzi makes you slower than an acemod tank, and it's was only exacerbated with multiple.
2. Unless they were retarded or had nowhere to go, someone wasnt going to get caught between reloads when kiting a tank, youd just get in medium range, dump a clip with slowdown, then turn and reload and continue til dead. At least now in acemod with decent awareness you can herd and corner people.

I can agree on some points that I think can be changed about acemod, but I think most things about promod are a step backwards.

Do agree with:
-The uzi is a bit overtuned at the moment, the game could use a 3/1 or even 2/2 weapon cap. (Might add some strategy on picking players who like uzi/shotgun moreso than just whoever is the best)

-Waiting out hordes or rushing for distance is a boring meta, horde should stop should you strategically decide to push an event and there is a tank spawn.

Do NOT agree with
-Muh jumprocks

-Muh slowdown

-Muh m2

-Muh melee power

-Muh more seemingly random witch damage.

If you could list if what things of promod would be an improvement for the game, I'd love to see it.








Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 07, 2016, 10:54:40 pm
It's pretty much what dusty said, the delusions about the tank speed completely baffle me. It's just not true and anyone who seems to think that the acemod tank is "castrated" because it can't make use of a highly abused mechanic that was very susceptible to scripting (Jumprock) is probably in need of medical attention.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 07, 2016, 10:58:58 pm
the only buff the uzi needed from vanilla was the ammo buff

This is why I can't quite tell if you're joking or not, be serious now my friend. Every config dev was able to agree with uzi did need to be buffed, Both promod and acemod improved the uzi.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 07, 2016, 11:03:50 pm
This is why I can't quite tell if you're joking or not, be serious now my friend. Every config dev was able to agree with uzi did need to be buffed, Both promod and acemod improved the uzi.
i'll be serious by first stating i'm not your 'friend.' you added me just to block me you scallywag.
i dont know much what promod did to it so il amend and just say these changes to it from acemod (faster reload, no limit, less spread, less spread while MOVING) were beyond unnecessary. it was always adventageous to run SMG for l4d2 because of wide open maps and si spawning far away and coming at you or picking spawns. l4d1 was the exact opposite, uzi only for tanks but even then most ppl kept shotguns because it was only hunters. besides the witch, why would anyone go shotgun in this config??

you guys seem to be ignoring this. does ANYONE think that the late parish 2 tank is okay? in maps where the holdout also has tank spawns they should just be reverted to what they were. in fact i can only think of dk3 and parish 2. block dk3 coaster tank like promod already had. people still killed parish 2 tank even with horde. problem solved.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 07, 2016, 11:47:57 pm
i dont know much what promod did to it

besides the witch, why would anyone go shotgun in this config??

So you more or less admit to knowing nothing about what you're talking about and you're essentially hoping to take shots in the dark until someone gives you jumprock back and you can do something other than get a no hitter with your tanks?

Why are you trying to suggest that a specific config is bad and should be replaced when you know next to nothing about that config and indeed about the config that want to replace it with?
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 08, 2016, 12:08:30 am
i dont know much what promod did to it so il amend and just say these changes to it from acemod (faster reload, no limit, less spread, less spread while MOVING) were beyond unnecessary. it was always adventageous to run SMG for l4d2 because of wide open maps and si spawning far away and coming at you or picking spawns. l4d1 was the exact opposite, uzi only for tanks but even then most ppl kept shotguns because it was only hunters. besides the witch, why would anyone go shotgun in this config??

you guys seem to be ignoring this. does ANYONE think that the late parish 2 tank is okay? in maps where the holdout also has tank spawns they should just be reverted to what they were. in fact i can only think of dk3 and parish 2. block dk3 coaster tank like promod already had. people still killed parish 2 tank even with horde. problem solved.

nice cropping my post daniel.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 08, 2016, 12:15:15 am
So you more or less admit to knowing nothing about what you're talking about and you're essentially hoping to take shots in the dark until someone gives you jumprock back and you can do something other than get a no hitter with your tanks?

Why are you trying to suggest that a specific config is bad and should be replaced when you know next to nothing about that config and indeed about the config that want to replace it with?
it will never be pragmatic to jumprock anymore and not because of the config but the move to 100 tic servers. in 60 tic it was still probable to do if you had the timing down, but even in promod in 100 tic, it is not worth risking throwing a rock and not moving.

my complaints with acemod go beyond this. did you read my post where i outlined about 14 different things that you havent even referred to once?

i dont need to know exactly what jacob tweaked from vanilla uzi to promod uzi to realize the differences between promod uzi and super acemod uzi is tremendous. and keep bringing skill into this argument when i havent played w/ a serious team since 2012. this is a discussion about the pros and cons for each. why does this bother you so much?

did you also miss the part where i said that since they are both abandoned and both have faults the best case scenario is taking the good from both?
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: NF on December 08, 2016, 12:26:31 am
I'm working on a config update now. Uzi will be restored to its original values, among other things.

I'm especially interested in hearing arguments for and against Tank slowdown. I'm personally against it but I'm open to listening.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: NF on December 08, 2016, 12:29:23 am
BTW the promod uzi was not buffed, in fact it had its ammo slightly reduced for a time. But then that was changed back too
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 08, 2016, 12:36:03 am
I'm working on a config update now. Uzi will be restored to its original values, among other things.

I'm especially interested in hearing arguments for and against Tank slowdown. I'm personally against it but I'm open to listening.
this along with jumprocks seemed to be one of my biggest initial gripes but ive just found so many more things that are more problematic. for like the 5th time, i dont think anyone enjoys what was done to parish 2 when tank spawns <50% or dk3. once again i'd suggest just blocking coaster tanks and reverting parish 2 back to what it was as those tank spawns were fine.

a limit on the uzi's certainly wouldn't hurt. a lot of these problems are certainly amplified by the buff in the uzi's.

water slowdown removal was one because it no longer forces survivors to choose between going on land near SI Spawns or going slower in the water where they cant spawn. now with the buffed uzi's forget it SI. there hasn't been much discussion on that so far here but i really feel that is subjective and could go either way. the changes to the uzi however make survivors far overpowered than they were in promod and i dont really see how this isn't readily apparent.

 i actually do like that everything doesn't revolve around spit charges anymore. the no m2 on hunter was a welcome change but was preventing wallkicks necessary in 4v4?

Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 08, 2016, 12:42:57 am
BTW the promod uzi was not buffed, in fact it had its ammo slightly reduced for a time. But then that was changed back too

https://www.l4dnation.com/pro-mod/pro-mod-5-0/msg47267/#msg47267 (https://www.l4dnation.com/pro-mod/pro-mod-5-0/msg47267/#msg47267)

Jacob must be lying then

@Shade, Promod implemented all those changes except for the reload speed, but made the gun more accurate whilst moving and lower spread than acemod to compensate for no change in reload time.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Dusty on December 08, 2016, 12:44:06 am
Quote
this along with jumprocks seemed to be one of my biggest initial gripes but ive just found so many more things that are more problematic. for like the 5th time, i dont think anyone enjoys what was done to parish 2 when tank spawns <50% or dk3. once again i'd suggest just blocking coaster tanks and reverting parish 2 back to what it was as those tank spawns were fine.

This is just you saying how you feel, you are making literally no point as to why slowdown on tank would be good, or having jumprocks is good. Because you like them? I mean I liked having 500 lerp in pubs what about that? can I get that in promod? I also liked HR aka the AK with a scope. can I get some more of those please?

Jumprock was a brokenly overpowered mechanic, and people were blatantly scripting it, Don't know how to corner someone or basically you CAN'T because of uzi slowdown? Its okay jumprock, gain distance while you freely cancel your animation.

Slowdown is just extremely frustrating as tank, The reward you get for shooting tank is damage to the tank, He shouldn't also be punished by being slowed to a pulp.

The way promod was played for a majority of the time was, jumprock commits, get a free down because of how busted jumprock was, then 2-3k HP tank with spawns would go for the last 3 survivors.

Now it actually takes a skilled tank to herd survivors to corners or into S.I. and S.I. usually try to sit to support tank or get a survivor into them, or go when he gets one going for a tricap. Yeah it sucks that if your S.I. doesn't get a good hit you get like one incap and die. But its better for the game if survivors survive more often.

Quote
water slowdown removal was one because it no longer forces survivors to choose between going on land near SI Spawns or going slower in the water where they cant spawn. now with the buffed uzi's forget it SI. there hasn't been much discussion on that so far here but i really feel that is subjective and could go either way. the changes to the uzi however make survivors far overpowered than they were in promod and i dont really see how this isn't readily apparent.

Lmfao, there was like zero option to take tanks in water area. The only one that I can even begin to think of is hard rain map 3 where the silos are, and thats just because there is almost zero spawns, and even then most people went back to the 2nd floor of the factory. So I'm confused what promod is being thought of. What is wrong with survivor being strong? You can still do damage, with tank and hits. people still take damage and die, just because they dont get fucked in one or two attacks like good ol promod?
THE POINT OF THE SCORING SYSTEM IS FOR PEOPLE TO SURVIVE MAPS AND BE JUDGED ON HOW WELL THEY DID


Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 08, 2016, 12:46:52 am
This is just you saying how you feel, you are making literally no point as to why slowdown on tank would be good, or having jumprocks is good. Because you like them? I mean I liked having 500 lerp in pubs what about that? can I get that in promod? I also liked HR aka the AK with a scope. can I get some more of those please?
i said i agreed w/ figs point on slowdown. yes i preferred jumprocks. did anyone really think jumprocks are equal to hr?? but can you read the actual post ur quoting. those were my initial reactions, but i listed things that i thought were even more egregious than that, specifically the OP Uzi's.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 08, 2016, 12:52:17 am
https://www.l4dnation.com/pro-mod/pro-mod-5-0/msg47267/#msg47267 (https://www.l4dnation.com/pro-mod/pro-mod-5-0/msg47267/#msg47267)

Jacob must be lying then

@Shade, Promod implemented all those changes except for the reload speed, but made the gun more accurate whilst moving and lower spread than acemod to compensate for no change in reload time.
i cant speak to the changes of that in may 2016 as i wasnt around. i personally would say promod was optimal around 3.2. if i came back after a year and a half and promod was still the config i'd be making the same points. both configs have faults. i havent played that promod more than once or twice. but at least there was a limit of uzi's there. the faster reload time makes the dps so much higher as well.   the times i had played promod since i came back i could tell that the change in difficulty for survivors was day and night. 
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 08, 2016, 12:52:39 am
i said i agreed w/ figs point on slowdown. yes i preferred jumprocks. did anyone really think jumprocks are equal to hr?? but can you read the actual post ur quoting. those were my initial reactions, but i listed things that i thought were even more egregious than that, specifically the OP Uzi's.

Yet promod also has that "OP" uzi that is more accurate but reloads a bit slower..But it inflicts slowdown on the tank which more or less equals the effect of a faster reload.. Therefore your point is? Your points about tanks are just nonsense and you can't seriously expect anyone with a good understanding of this game to believe that an acemod tank is somehow weaker than promod. That is if you were to discount the use of jumprock which you probably should seeing as you and Grizz are the only who humans on the planet who want jumprock to be enabled in a competitive config.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 08, 2016, 12:55:12 am
Yet promod also has that "OP" uzi that is more accurate but reloads a bit slower..But it inflicts slowdown on the tank which more or less equals the effect of a faster reload.. Therefore your point is? Your points about tanks are just nonsense and you can't seriously expect anyone with a good understanding of this game to believe that an acemod tank is somehow weaker than promod. That is if you were to discount the use of jumprock which you probably should seeing as you and Grizz are the only who humans on the planet who want jumprock to be enabled in a competitive config.
see above, and stop making the same straw man arguments that all complaints about acemod are traced to jumprocks please
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 08, 2016, 12:57:40 am
i cant speak to the changes of that in may 2016 as i wasnt around. i personally would say promod was optimal around 3.2. if i came back after a year and a half and promod was still the config i'd be making the same points. both configs have faults. i havent played that promod more than once or twice. but at least there was a limit of uzi's there. the faster reload time makes the dps so much higher as well.   the times i had played promod since i came back i could tell that the change in difficulty for survivors was day and night.

So this is more of nostalgic plea for a chance to be a kid again than anything logical? That's more or less what I assumed. You are unhappy because you can't wipe a team every single map like was the meta back when you played the game actively, well the problem is that those same players who played back then have now improved. Your delusions about the config being the reason that the same playerbase that has been here for years is suddenly not getting wiped every attack are strange. You seriously don't think these players have improved over the 50 years they've played pugs daily? Perhaps that could be why they aren't getting wiped by your tanks nowdays.

Host your own servers and you can 1v1 Grizz on Promod 1.5 all day long if that's what you wish to do.

@Uzi dps
Yet promod also has that "OP" uzi that is more accurate but reloads a bit slower..But it inflicts slowdown on the tank which more or less equals the effect of a faster reload.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: NF on December 08, 2016, 01:03:19 am
https://www.l4dnation.com/pro-mod/pro-mod-5-0/msg47267/#msg47267 (https://www.l4dnation.com/pro-mod/pro-mod-5-0/msg47267/#msg47267)

Jacob must be lying then

@Shade, Promod implemented all those changes except for the reload speed, but made the gun more accurate whilst moving and lower spread than acemod to compensate for no change in reload time.

Oh lol. Forgot that last minute change Jacob threw in on a version nobody really played. Let me clarify: for 95% of promod's life, uzi wasn't buffed.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Impulsive on December 08, 2016, 01:12:44 am
Allow me to briefly list my dream config before going promod vs acemod. (which should REALLY be acemod vs reflux, but w/e)

For weapon balance, Use either:
Both configs had pretty good balance then they unanimously decided to have nospread lightning guns vaporize everything
The first option has both weapons being slightly weaker then the second option, but both lack steroid-spread Uzis.
Also, I'd like to see dualies do something (kind of like l4d1)

For tanks,

Dusty went over solid anti-jump rock shit and slowdown is annoying. Bhopping tanks is scary too

For everything else, use reflux's shenanigans (slightly modified)
Yes, deadstops are irritating when done unintentionally (or even intentionally) but leaping scratching hunters are far worse. It's like shooting jumping common that almost always do 6 damage, who really wants to do that?

Deadstopping is a HUGE part of the game that we flat-out removed. Pre-m2ing wall-kicking hunters was an interesting interaction that is just not present in modern configs. Also, this has the side-effect of helping out the uzi (alleviating the need for the reload nerf IMO) and rewards a mechanic that isn't just aim. This gives the players more choices, something that will always produce more interesting gameplay. Plus, wallkicks allows the hunter to be more mobile (and mobile SI is good)


For acemod vs promod

I'd prefer Acemod in it's current state, but i still view it to be HIGHLY flawed. My main dislike for it is how strong the weapons are. Tanks are flat-out melted by four insanely accurate uzis, making wipes really unlikely outside of miraculous tri-caps and hittables. Actually, does anyone really enjoy playing tank in Acemod half the time? Four uzis just plow your asshole and you just fucking die. I thought four uzis would be kind of fun back when i was god-awful at the game, but i was so, so wrong. While the buffs affected this, i think the real problem lies with us removing the uzi limit. Imo, weapon-balance should be seen on a survivor vs SI hit basis, leaving the uzi limit to deal with tank balance. Aside from room tanks, Uzi's will always just be better - limit them.

I still prefer reflux over Acemod, even with jumprocks and slowdown.

I had a much more thorough post typed out that ripped so i probably missed some shit, but this should be the crux of it.


Please god no matter what this community chooses revert the uzi spread buff

Edit(s): Grammar
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Moscow on December 08, 2016, 06:47:10 am
random thoughts about config things:

- Hunter scratch spam is retarded.
- Promod taking tier 1.5s out of saferoom made me not want to play.
- Carni 3 and certain other maps are ruined with horde you can camp. No one wants to wait out 300 common and a late tank means guaranteed wipe unless it's a scrim/match.
- The knife is OP (dunno if this is acemod or a server thing).
- I miss wallkick, both on SI and surv side.
- 4 uzis is too much damage even without slowdown.
- Not having the double getup fix sucks.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 08, 2016, 07:59:07 am
random thoughts about config things:

- Hunter scratch spam is retarded.
- Promod taking tier 1.5s out of saferoom made me not want to play.
- Carni 3 and certain other maps are ruined with horde you can camp. No one wants to wait out 300 common and a late tank means guaranteed wipe unless it's a scrim/match.
- The knife is OP (dunno if this is acemod or a server thing).
- I miss wallkick, both on SI and surv side.
- 4 uzis is too much damage even without slowdown.
- Not having the double getup fix sucks.

- Hunters shouldn't ever get more than 2 scratches, otherwise you're doing something wrong.
- Carni 3 is not too unrealistic if your team is half decent, I'll agree that it doesn't mix well with the average pug though due to the poor quality of the players.
- Knife isn't config related
- I don't miss wallkick, I think that if the m2 on the hunter is removed then the wallkick should also be removed. You can't have one without the other.
- 4 uzis are also highly vulnerable to being caught by a well placed hunter or jockey, leading to stumbles that can result in chaos, not running any shotguns has it's disadvantages as well as it's advantages.
- Even promods supposed double get up fix was not perfect, I find that regardless of the config you'll always get double get ups and stupid buggy shit.. that's just the game, i don't think we're ever going to entirely eliminate that.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: fig newtons on December 08, 2016, 12:52:48 pm
I mean, Isn't shooting the tank and getting damage, or clearing you teammates so they can shoot tank/not take damage reward enough? if your S.I. distract that takes damage away from what your tank would have taken, is that not punishment for weak/strong play?
You're not wrong. It's just that it's not as much of a reward/punishment for weak/strong play as when slowdown is enabled. Widening the gap between strong play and weak play in the score line is a GOOD thing, and tank slowdown does that.

I think what people don't like about tank slowdown is that it makes tank less fun to play. That's really what this boils down to. I can empathize with that a lot, but I don't think it's the best for the game as a whole.

I can agree on some points that I think can be changed about acemod, but I think most things about promod are a step backwards.
You forgot the stupid jumping, scratching hunter. B)
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: fig newtons on December 08, 2016, 12:54:00 pm
- The knife is OP (dunno if this is acemod or a server thing).
This is a server issue. Talk to volarium and tell him you'd prefer it was removed.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Moscow on December 08, 2016, 04:50:04 pm
- Hunters shouldn't ever get more than 2 scratches, otherwise you're doing something wrong.
- Carni 3 is not too unrealistic if your team is half decent, I'll agree that it doesn't mix well with the average pug though due to the poor quality of the players.
- Knife isn't config related
- I don't miss wallkick, I think that if the m2 on the hunter is removed then the wallkick should also be removed. You can't have one without the other.
- 4 uzis are also highly vulnerable to being caught by a well placed hunter or jockey, leading to stumbles that can result in chaos, not running any shotguns has it's disadvantages as well as it's advantages.
- Even promods supposed double get up fix was not perfect, I find that regardless of the config you'll always get double get ups and stupid buggy shit.. that's just the game, i don't think we're ever going to entirely eliminate that.

- That's still too much damage for something so braindead.
-
-
- I guess. I'd actually be fine with M2 being brought back in exchange for wallkick. Hunter feels really clunky without it and rocket spawning into a wallkick was my favorite thing.
- Stumbles are not realistic if your team is half decent. And the teams that aren't wouldn't be skeeting stuff anyway. No shotgun for a tank fight is too small a price for how fast the tank melts.
- Double getups happening almost never versus happening every game seems worth caring about.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: ElusivΣ on December 08, 2016, 04:54:22 pm
- Hunters shouldn't ever get more than 2 scratches, otherwise you're doing something wrong.
- Carni 3 is not too unrealistic if your team is half decent, I'll agree that it doesn't mix well with the average pug though due to the poor quality of the players.
- Knife isn't config related
- I don't miss wallkick, I think that if the m2 on the hunter is removed then the wallkick should also be removed. You can't have one without the other.
- 4 uzis are also highly vulnerable to being caught by a well placed hunter or jockey, leading to stumbles that can result in chaos, not running any shotguns has it's disadvantages as well as it's advantages.
- Even promods supposed double get up fix was not perfect, I find that regardless of the config you'll always get double get ups and stupid buggy shit.. that's just the game, i don't think we're ever going to entirely eliminate that.

yo I also agree with all this danne.  Imo the only thing that needs to be tweaked for weapons in acemod is a slightly slower reload duration maybe if people really care about the dps capabilty.

It's pretty much what dusty said, the delusions about the tank speed completely baffle me. It's just not true and anyone who seems to think that the acemod tank is "castrated" because it can't make use of a highly abused mechanic that was very susceptible to scripting (Jumprock) is probably in need of medical attention.

lmaooo agreed also
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: 3yebex on December 08, 2016, 06:18:51 pm
- Double getups happening almost never versus happening every game seems worth caring about.
Here is my take on this...

First of all, double getups are predictable, and easily reproducible. While they are frustrating, maybe even overpowered, they can be used strategically. This in my opinion is far better than trying to fix them which wasn't consistent at all, meaning that you or a team mate might be expecting no double getup and then get thrown off on the 1/5 chance it actually happens. I think we removed dynamic shotgun spread in favor of static shotgun spread because predictability is preferred by competitive level players, right?

I feel like nobody read my suggestion about increasing drop-off damage on the shotgun and uzi at all, everyone seems to be adamant about nerfing the uzi back to it's useless camping state.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Bravo on December 08, 2016, 07:26:22 pm
Never ending cycle to reach a perfect competitive balance in a game not meant for competitive play.  At this point you should just add hunting rifles back, add quad caps with an extra hunter or something give the tank more hp and give everyone lightsabers and cs knives.  fuck it, have some fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg6Xxw-6KBM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg6Xxw-6KBM)
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: hib on December 09, 2016, 12:02:32 pm
EDIT: Also forgot to say that I believe that a reason a lot of people see survivor as easier is because of the nerf to spit and especially spit charges. In the old days you basically get pull/spit charged or just any combo of gang bang spit charge and it's 60 damage. The system now is a lot more balanced. The way the health bonus and damage bonus system works to show who is a better team only works if survivors survive maps.

Yeah, in the new days, landing a legitimate solo charge does 8-12 dmg max. Sounds pretty balanced to me. As for the gang bang, you only see it as a problem seeing that you are the type of player that likes getting separated to bait spawns towards him (aka the original eximius. shade strat). Witches are also a joke now, getting the insta down was way better than how it is now, flukey shit, where the witch targets one, punches you, then out of chance will hit another person because they got in the way or whatnot..

EDIT: as to what fig was saying, there was also a better juking factor/ability that the survivors were able to do.  Even removal of water slowdown, in my opinion made the game too easy. I would have liked it if it gave partial slowdown. As to the guns switches, i gave the idea of having shitty guns in the saferoom and going throughout the map to upgrade them, but with early tank, honestly I'd take that idea back.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Jacob on December 09, 2016, 01:41:27 pm
just want to say the uzi changes i put in 5.0.2 were meant to be played on and tested, i never expected those to be the final values. i had figured they would probably be a bit too strong but at the time if i just made minor changes nothing would have changed with people running 4 shotguns. i didnt really expect acemod to put out 1 last update then be done or i probably would have suggested lower values to visor. but those buffs + uzi reload speed and no uzi limit is probably too much. i do think lowering the spread of the smg's is a good thing in the same regard as adding static shotgun spread, but it needs tweaks or it will be broken just like when static shotguns first came out. either way u can blame me for the uzis spread cuz i did suggest it to visor at the time he was working on that acemod update
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 09, 2016, 08:00:22 pm
hi jacob, dont think ive seen u since ive been back. sry u left promod. i rmbr when u first picked up the project. it was right about the time that blade was literally steering metafogl towards intel and icy inferno's team. appreciate all the hard work you have done. also ur a funny guy

anyway i believe these are pertinent to this discussion. found them in the basement. nice try hiding them daniel.

The next release will be groundbreaking. Some will love it, some will hate it, but everyone will be shocked one way or another.

My vision for tank fights differs from promod. I prefer seeing them commit asap with good support, this contributes to SI chemistry build up (and good fragmovies too -- for those who care about that). Rock tanks on the other hand are the "exhaustion" approach, consisting in milking the HB with brute force, half-synced attacks. It is typically the preffered tactic in mixes/pugs due to lack of chemistry between random players.

In a nutshell, Acemod is still just EQ3 without snipers. EQ3 had never supported long tanks more than it was necessary. Every approach is equally viable, but until now the long rock tank was the obvious one. I'm sure it will still remain so despite the nerf, but at least now it won't be just about mindlessly throwing yourself at the survivors and spamming hitbox edges with rocks in hopes of hitting them.
left4dead2/cfg/cfgogl/acemod

obviously acemod is centered around a very different tank fight. besides the obvious in the parish 2, the only way you can play ANY rock tank against a decent survivor team is if they are already slow / bleeding. especially with the uzi's to which he says this, to which i say checkmate daniel

Uzis have indeed turned out to be too OP. They will be nerfed in the next release. Right now they feel on par with or even above tier 2 assault rifles.

u guys and your little coup forced him out before he could fix what he himself identified as an obvious imbalance. sure he did stuff like call me bernie madoff and FALSELY ban me for embezzlement, but w/ jacob saying hasta la pasta you should have let him fix the config. hope this puts it all in perspective for everyone unclear about the core of our complaints with the current  version of acemod.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Griz on December 09, 2016, 11:38:25 pm
 I don't know if this would mean anything, it took me roughly 40 mins to write out and about an hour to think prior to writing it. I'm pretty sure things are sorted for the most part in this discussion but I'd still just like to add to this for the sake of clarity.

http://pastebin.com/nv2eWzH6 (http://pastebin.com/nv2eWzH6)
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Bravo on December 09, 2016, 11:50:06 pm
I don't know if this would mean anything, it took me roughly 40 mins to write out and about an hour to think prior to writing it. I'm pretty sure things are sorted for the most part in this discussion but I'd still just like to add to this for the sake of clarity.

[url]http://pastebin.com/nv2eWzH6[/url] ([url]http://pastebin.com/nv2eWzH6[/url])


please seek help.

I also have a story tho, http://pastebin.com/DpdsFcCe (http://pastebin.com/DpdsFcCe)
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: supra on December 10, 2016, 12:17:13 am
bravo is being the scrapyard dog right now, can we pray for him?
may god have mercy on your soul.

1:12 AM - brub: jesus can suck my dick
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: ElusivΣ on December 10, 2016, 02:52:17 am
please seek help.

I also have a story tho, [url]http://pastebin.com/DpdsFcCe[/url] ([url]http://pastebin.com/DpdsFcCe[/url])


bravo is being the scrapyard dog right now, can we pray for him?
may god have mercy on your soul.

1:12 AM - brub: jesus can suck my dick


It's grizz's opinions about the config thread so just chillout cuz he is staying on topic with the thread at least.  Just like both of you toddler mentality still suckin on yo momma's titty mothafuckas are equally entitled to post stupid dumbass bullshit always.  You both don't fuckin know when too much is too much sometimes.  I may find some of your fuckin shit funny but sometimes I don't.

And btw lastly, grizz is talkin about real shit so I support and commend him for doin that.  thanks for sharing bro :).
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: supra on December 10, 2016, 03:11:50 am
It's grizz's opinions about the config thread so just chillout cuz he is staying on topic with the thread at least.  Just like both of you toddler mentality still suckin on yo momma's titty mothafuckas are equally entitled to post stupid dumbass bullshit always.  You both don't fuckin know when too much is too much sometimes.  I may find some of your fuckin shit funny but sometimes I don't.

And btw lastly, grizz is talkin about real shit so I support and commend him for doin that.  thanks for sharing bro :).


woah nigga woah no one saying a nigga cant have a opinion except u,  feel me nigguhdyhomedawggquan? idk nigga but that dog story not on topic nigga and nothin wrong with my momma titty nigga so keep my momma titty outcho bitch mouth before a nigga catch the heat from my gat u feel me nigga? a real nigga know when a nigga go too far aight dawg? dont be up in here killin vibes u feel dawg? dont be out here poppin shots fo no reason nigga i be ridin up yo hood real slow nigga u feel me nigga?

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/tumblr_mrw1ndjYdx1s7m6b9o1_500.gif)
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: ElusivΣ on December 10, 2016, 03:37:39 am
lmao damn I love how you think me just fuckin around with sayin shit like "damn yo you poppin off shots in broad daylight", postin a tupac gif or whatever the fuck is legit how I think or talk 24/7.  I do say nigga irl alot cuz that's just the way I grew up with the friends I chilled with.  And yo i'm pretty sure you listen to hip hop or rap($uicideboy$, bones, or whatever you listen to in that genre) that ocassionaly or frequently says nigga so you act like it's uncommonly heard lol?  So don't try to come at me with sarcastic jokes about truthful shit about me cuz that's who i am.  And grizz postin his story and ideas, that's who he is despite you sayin oh you're crazy as fuck seek help, etc..  And despite fuckin sayin all of this to you, I still respect you supra cuz i'm just sayin my opinions to you.  So how about maybe replying to threads with actual relevant feedback more often?
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: supra on December 10, 2016, 03:53:38 am
lmao damn I love how you think me just fuckin around with sayin shit like "damn yo you poppin off shots in broad daylight", postin a tupac gif or whatever the fuck is legit how I think or talk 24/7.  I do say nigga irl alot cuz that's just the way I grew up with the friends I chilled with.  And yo i'm pretty sure you listen to hip hop or rap($uicideboy$, bones, or whatever you listen to in that genre) that ocassionaly or frequently says nigga so you act like it's uncommonly heard lol?  So don't try to come at me with sarcastic jokes about truthful shit about me cuz that's who i am.  And grizz postin his story and ideas, that's who he is despite you sayin oh you're crazy as fuck seek help, etc..  And despite fuckin sayin all of this to you, I still respect you supra cuz i'm just sayin my opinions to you.  So how about maybe replying to threads with actual relevant feedback more often?

N-I-G-G-A PUHLEASE, my niggas $uicideboy$ and bones don't say nigga, my nigga, i didnt say he was crazy nigga my post was directed towards my sand nigga, u feel me nigga?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/pkhkNvEuu7M3u/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 10, 2016, 10:32:59 am
i fear that this will no longer be the discussion about configs i strived for. instead it will detour into supra internet trolling mr word over his jargon and 200 references to junkyard dog. not exactly the positive changed i hoped to affect.

Uzis have indeed turned out to be too OP. They will be nerfed in the next release. Right now they feel on par with or even above tier 2 assault rifles.

for anyone still on the fence about this though, visor recognized that these uzi's were about as op as t2, a comparison ive seen made by many players. he intended to fix it. so acemod is as outdated and abandoned as promod. with all that said i applaud nf for trying to fix this. i also think there are a LOT of nifty things jacob added in promod updates over the years.

had visor started from promod i think the config would be better even if he changed some of the core things like tankplay like he did. instead it was ameliorated over eq so a lot of them are lost.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Bravo on December 10, 2016, 11:35:10 am
i fear that this will no longer be the discussion about configs i strived for. instead it will detour into supra internet trolling mr word over his jargon and 200 references to junkyard dog. not exactly the positive changed i hoped to affect.

for anyone still on the fence about this though, visor recognized that these uzi's were about as op as t2, a comparison ive seen made by many players. he intended to fix it. so acemod is as outdated and abandoned as promod. with all that said i applaud nf for trying to fix this. i also think there are a LOT of nifty things jacob added in promod updates over the years.

had visor started from promod i think the config would be better even if he changed some of the core things like tankplay like he did. instead it was ameliorated over eq so a lot of them are lost.

You were never going to get a discussion in the first place.  It always goes the same. "I think this, oh you think that? na... I think this, wait you think that? na thats wrong this is what I think.  WHOA wtf, thats what you think, nonono this is what I think and ITS THE RIGHT THING TO THINK".

Elusive, just like grizz can post what he wants I can too.  So fuck off bud. yayaya, hes on "topic".  Personally I think hes a psycho but whatever.

Let me share with you a real story about him then.  We were puggin, right? grizzz deadstops a jockey.  Dude on the other team says something along the lines of "damn, god level player".  grizz stops mid game while playing survivor and types "nobody is on his level" meaning god I guess.  At this point I say something along the lines of "are you kidding me, that dude isnt really saying you're fucking god, you're insane bla bla bla..." I also said fuck god or something im not sure but at this point grizz goes " god will punish you bravo ".  Being a very curious little boy I say something like "what, is he going to take my games away?"  grizz goes "no, gods punishment is death".  LIKE ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME WITH THAT SHIT? HES A FUCKING NUT JOB.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Dusty on December 10, 2016, 11:56:53 am
Quote
You're not wrong. It's just that it's not as much of a reward/punishment for weak/strong play as when slowdown is enabled. Widening the gap between strong play and weak play in the score line is a GOOD thing, and tank slowdown does that.

I think what people don't like about tank slowdown is that it makes tank less fun to play. That's really what this boils down to. I can empathize with that a lot, but I don't think it's the best for the game as a whole.

You forgot the stupid jumping, scratching hunter. B)

       I mean you can make arguments like this for many cases, spit charges doing 70 damage is a better reward/punishment for good or bad play. But doesn't mean its correct to balance around that, or that's what's best for the game or not. You were basically saying tank is too weak in acemod, yet making an argument for something that is a significant nerf to tank? This will make tank fights even easier and less discrepancy in score if I'm not mistaken? Or what is your ideal changes to make it even?

       In my opinion, tank lost and overpowered mechanic in jumprock which people were cheating to use and had to be changed.
Survivors had to be nerfed for it to be balanced, slowdown is an obvious choice because its not very much a "skill based" action. you m1 a tank the size of a barn and he runs slow. Im not sure where the skill lose in removing it is? Infected baiting bullets away from tank is still a skill that is utilized. Now you just don't get a double dip reward, but you still get rewarded for the same play.

       Yes I agree that it makes tank play more fun, which is just another bonus, also I agree that hunters should be m2'able unless they are pouncing.

Quote
Yeah, in the new days, landing a legitimate solo charge does 8-12 dmg max. Sounds pretty balanced to me. As for the gang bang, you only see it as a problem seeing that you are the type of player that likes getting separated to bait spawns towards him (aka the original eximius. shade strat). Witches are also a joke now, getting the insta down was way better than how it is now, flukey shit, where the witch targets one, punches you, then out of chance will hit another person because they got in the way or whatnot..

       Okay where to begin with this spew of information, Landing a solo charge does almost EXACTLY the same amount of damage it always did, the only thing that has been changed is spit doing exponentially more damage. It used to be more beneficial to clear your teammate later from the charge and let them get slammed because of how much spit damage would do if you cleared them. Also if you are good, you can either punch charge someone who's close for an instant like 16 damage? More than any other SI is capable of in short amounts of time(Minus DP's) I'm saying this because the way you stated it seems like you are sarcastically saying it's "balanced"

       You don't know what type of player I am hib, You think you are so good at reading peoples mindsets and plays, yet you seem to lose and be berated for your idiotic play on the regular. Maybe because of these terrible assumptions? Anyways, it doesn't matter what type of player I am to realize that the old days, was all about going for spit charges, nothing else mattered. Even if you landed a tricap with a boom, if they got quick clears you could maybe get 20-30 damage, but why bother because if you pull-spit charge into a corner then send a hunter to scratch or boomer to try and proxy. You'd get 60-70 damage. Even now the pull spit charge or pull charger punches is still a viable strategy, but at least you have other options just as good.

       Why is it way better? Like 90% of the posts I read here are like, man jumprocks are better, old witch is better but say nothing. The old witch people could get in her way and get scratched down too, so what point are you trying to make? The witch has many random elements and her doing less damage in a smack is a way to reduce the impact of these pseudo-random elements. Think parish 2 or dark carni 2 when people first learned she could smack and down you while she climbed onto the ceda van or while she climbed the fence, think of the times she'd curve and long arm you from a range where even if you shot, you would NOT have gotten the crown. These events impact has been reduced, and with the static spread and more damage on crown shots, seem to happen less often. Which I am happy with, competitively and in pugs.


In reference to what grizz said, I believe he's right in what he says about in old promod, you didn't need a ton of individually skilled players, you could make a team that had really good cohesion and teamwork and be a strong contender. But I don't believe that acemod is the polar opposite, You still need good teamwork and cohesion to be the best even in acemod. You still need to be good at clearing teammates, or working together on hits, both as survivor and infected, I just believe that promod made it easier to contend with weaker individually skilled members, because you could be the best at using mechanics like spit charges and avoiding them etc...


Quote
obviously acemod is centered around a very different tank fight. besides the obvious in the parish 2, the only way you can play ANY rock tank against a decent survivor team is if they are already slow / bleeding. especially with the uzi's to which he says this, to which i say checkmate daniel

I don't agree, a smart tank and team can play rock in many places even against decent survivors. SRN played a really good rock tank against us on hardrain downpour, was our team bad survivors? No, but they played a good tank and good infected. Back in HR days, tank had to LOS survivor, no exceptions. In promod days, it was survivors LOS tank, no exceptions. I think acemod has a good balance of survivors can play aggressive and in the open to try and chip and make the tank LOS and vice-versa.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 10, 2016, 11:59:48 am


I don't agree, a smart tank and team can play rock in many places even against decent survivors. SRN played a really good rock tank against us on hardrain downpour, was our team bad survivors? No, but they played a good tank and good infected. Back in HR days, tank had to LOS survivor, no exceptions. In promod days, it was survivors LOS tank, no exceptions. I think acemod has a good balance of survivors can play aggressive and in the open to try and chip and make the tank LOS and vice-versa.
i dont know how u think this w/ the op Uzi's. look at visor's last quote recognizing this and promising to fix them in the next update. everything starts with this.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Dusty on December 10, 2016, 12:12:17 pm
Quote from: dusty
Do agree with:
-The uzi is a bit overtuned at the moment, the game could use a 3/1 or even 2/2 weapon cap. (Might add some strategy on picking players who like uzi/shotgun moreso than just whoever is the best)

I already said I agree that uzi is OP atm. Even with them it's still possible. I think they could use a damage dropoff and reload time buff should be reverted, I don't think theres too much wrong with them being accurate, maybe a nerf to moving accuracy as well? in between new and old? But if you are going to critique what I say, please show me where you had a good team playing against a good team in acemod, instead of just your experience in pugs. Also don't try to act like I am going against something if you don't read what I have posted.

I don't really care if we went back under the config name promod to fix these problems if visor doesn't want to. But doing things like adding tank slowdown or jumprock backs are IN MY OPINION, steps backwards. Also +rep to shooting on ladders was a huge step.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 10, 2016, 12:14:45 pm
I already said I agree that uzi is OP atm. Even with them it's still possible. I think they could use a damage dropoff and reload time buff should be reverted, I don't think theres too much wrong with them being accurate, maybe a nerf to moving accuracy as well? in between new and old? But if you are going to critique what I say, please show me where you had a good team playing against a good team in acemod, instead of just your experience in pugs. Also don't try to act like I am going against something if you don't read what I have posted.

I don't really care if we went back under the config name promod to fix these problems if visor doesn't want to. But doing things like adding tank slowdown or jumprock backs are IN MY OPINION, steps backwards. Also +rep to shooting on ladders was a huge step.
can you and daniel stop it with the jumprock strawman. in my manifesto i outlined several MORE IMPORTANT THINGS, that are all made worse with these OP uzi's. i also think we should reconsider water slowdown but one thing at a time.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Dusty on December 10, 2016, 12:18:33 pm
Can you tell me what benefit there is to water slowdown minus funneling survivors into the options for where to fight tank?
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 10, 2016, 12:24:05 pm
Can you tell me what benefit there is to water slowdown minus funneling survivors into the options for where to fight tank?
forcing them to choose between going near areas where they are fast but there are spawns, during and not during tank. or being slow in an area with less spawns.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Dusty on December 10, 2016, 12:50:08 pm
So what areas in promod did survivors choose to fight in water? Because Im pretty sure there was none.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Jacob on December 10, 2016, 01:08:58 pm
I already said I agree that uzi is OP atm. Even with them it's still possible. I think they could use a damage dropoff and reload time buff should be reverted, I don't think theres too much wrong with them being accurate, maybe a nerf to moving accuracy as well? in between new and old?

I agree with this actually. Making them more accurate is ok, having less random spray is nice.. but the damage output they do now as a result is the real problem. The moving accuracy is probably the real issue here. There's several ways you could fix this issue honestly, it's just a matter of what direction you want to take the uzi. Do you want people to run and gun with it like a shotgun or should it be a more static playstyle? Personally I used to think it needed the run and gun ability to compete but I've realized since that not being able to do that is what balanced the weapon. I'm gunna trust you on the opinion that damage drop off is an issue for the gun since I haven't played recently, but if other people disagree on that then you may want to ignore that part of what I'm about to talk about. If I were to suggest a changelog it would be something along the lines of:

- SMG spread when moving increased from 165 / 175% to 230% (300% default)
- Reduced SMG range before falloff by 200. (Default 2200 / 2500)
- Removed sped up reload on SMGs.

The key thing being that if you are standing still your gun will still be pretty damn accurate. After trying that out for a few days you might find that it's about right, or that nerfing the range wasn't the right way to address the problem. Maybe even reducing the damage by 1 per bullet would be enough to see a noticeable difference. I would suggest not lowering the range any more than that to start off though if you do go that route, or you might end up making the gun feel very underwhelming in comparison to the shotgun. If it can't run and gun and it also can't out range the shotgun, it will serve no purpose.

This is probably my last post on the subject cuz I honestly am not informed enough on this game anymore to really contribute much, don't use my ideas as an argument point against each other because my opinion means very little here. Just sharing what I'd do based on what you guys are saying.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 10, 2016, 01:20:08 pm
I think that the reload speed buff was one of the better changes to the uzi, and it was a required change. The uzi prior to any kind of edit was far inferior to the shotgun. It was so useless that barely anyone ever took it in Acemod. In Promod it had slowdown which was the main reason it was used at all. Without the slowdown some kind of buff is required. I'd prefer a composite buff compromised of both reload speed and moving accuracy/reduced spread. Regardless this is all unimportant, configs are likely not going to be updated and i'm quite content with acemod v4.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 10, 2016, 01:32:09 pm
I agree with this actually. Making them more accurate is ok, having less random spray is nice.. but the damage output they do now as a result is the real problem. The moving accuracy is probably the real issue here. There's several ways you could fix this issue honestly, it's just a matter of what direction you want to take the uzi. Do you want people to run and gun with it like a shotgun or should it be a more static playstyle? Personally I used to think it needed the run and gun ability to compete but I've realized since that not being able to do that is what balanced the weapon. I'm gunna trust you on the opinion that damage drop off is an issue for the gun since I haven't played recently, but if other people disagree on that then you may want to ignore that part of what I'm about to talk about. If I were to suggest a changelog it would be something along the lines of:

- SMG spread when moving increased from 165 / 175% to 230% (300% default)
- Reduced SMG range before falloff by 200. (Default 2200 / 2500)
- Removed sped up reload on SMGs.

The key thing being that if you are standing still your gun will still be pretty damn accurate. After trying that out for a few days you might find that it's about right, or that nerfing the range wasn't the right way to address the problem. Maybe even reducing the damage by 1 per bullet would be enough to see a noticeable difference. I would suggest not lowering the range any more than that to start off though if you do go that route, or you might end up making the gun feel very underwhelming in comparison to the shotgun. If it can't run and gun and it also can't out range the shotgun, it will serve no purpose.

This is probably my last post on the subject cuz I honestly am not informed enough on this game anymore to really contribute much, don't use my ideas as an argument point against each other because my opinion means very little here. Just sharing what I'd do based on what you guys are saying.
agreed. the way survivors can just run and chase tanks and shoot with no dropoff w/ these uzi's is just ridiculous.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 10, 2016, 01:39:19 pm
So what areas in promod did survivors choose to fight in water? Because Im pretty sure there was none.

fight what in water tanks or attacks? the removal of water slowdown opens up so many areas without consequence now such as
swamp fever 1, the very open directly across from the tank spawn all the way in the back. as opposed to the land open, at least there was that bush. really no way to spawn with the 2 or so trees in that water if survivors spread out enough.


swamp fever 2. for the event. the water around the plane. no reason NOT to take event there as there are no spawns. not saying the other open area was hard but did it really need to become easier? the rest of the map is just a joke for infected w/out the slowdown. swamp was always a good map for a good coordinated infected team.

hard rain 4. the house that most people play the tank in map 1 or the house across from the ambulance becomes even harder than map 1 which was already easy. tank can not keep los on these maps. at least when people went there to nullify cars there was a payoff. now theres no reason not to. the only significant tank of hard rain 4 now is anything below 40 where the survivors cant push to these safe havens. hard rain 4 is no longer a 'map 4'd map where you will lose the whole game despite dominating the previous 3 maps. the distance / health bonus fixed this.

my question is when did we suddenly decide things were too easy for survivors and think that we needed to give them things such as buffing weapons, removing a significant focal point of SI And tankplay in waterslowdown?
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Dusty on December 10, 2016, 01:54:27 pm
Quote
swamp fever 1, the very open directly across from the tank spawn all the way in the back. as opposed to the land open, at least there was that bush. really no way to spawn with the 2 or so trees in that water if survivors spread out enough.


swamp fever 2. for the event. the water around the plane. no reason NOT to take event there as there are no spawns. not saying the other open area was hard but did it really need to become easier? the rest of the map is just a joke for infected w/out the slowdown. swamp was always a good map for a good coordinated infected team.

hard rain 4. the house that most people play the tank in map 1 or the house across from the ambulance becomes even harder than map 1 which was already easy. tank can not keep los on these maps. at least when people went there to nullify cars there was a payoff. now theres no reason not to. the only significant tank of hard rain 4 now is anything below 40 where the survivors cant push to these safe havens. hard rain 4 is no longer a 'map 4'd map where you will lose the whole game despite dominating the previous 3 maps. the distance / health bonus fixed this.

Swamp Map 1: The only time I seen survivors try to take it here the tank just got infinite LOS, and ate slow but constant damage until they had to move.

Swamp 2: As for this area, survivor slowdown makes nearly no difference for holding the event, the area is just wide open, and with buffed uzi most of swamp is just event holding in wide open areas and taking no damage.

Hard Rain 4: The only time people took tank at the house across from the ambulance was when the tank was too close for them to push back. because

All these areas were areas in promod you wouldn't fight a tank unless you had too because water slowdown was far too detrimental.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 10, 2016, 02:02:40 pm

All these areas were areas in promod you wouldn't fight a tank unless you had too because water slowdown was far too detrimental.
um yeah. thats the entire point.

to use hard rain 4, do you risk taking the ambulance stilt house tank to guarantee you won't get car'd or go back and risk it to get a better health bonus. now theres no choice. u stay under that house. 0 risk.

i listed a few spots off the top of my head. but it isn't just about during tanks. its the entirety of SI attacks. did things really need to be made easier for survivors in a way that hurt the infected rendering maps like swamp no fun against decent survivors.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: ElusivΣ on December 10, 2016, 05:16:36 pm
I think that the reload speed buff was one of the better changes to the uzi, and it was a required change. The uzi prior to any kind of edit was far inferior to the shotgun. It was so useless that barely anyone ever took it in Acemod. In Promod it had slowdown which was the main reason it was used at all. Without the slowdown some kind of buff is required. I'd prefer a composite buff compromised of both reload speed and moving accuracy/reduced spread. Regardless this is all unimportant, configs are likely not going to be updated and i'm quite content with acemod v4.

yo now that you put it in that perspective, I agree with you about the acemod vs promod uzis.

You were never going to get a discussion in the first place.  It always goes the same. "I think this, oh you think that? na... I think this, wait you think that? na thats wrong this is what I think.  WHOA wtf, thats what you think, nonono this is what I think and ITS THE RIGHT THING TO THINK".

Elusive, just like grizz can post what he wants I can too.  So fuck off bud. yayaya, hes on "topic".  Personally I think hes a psycho but whatever.

Let me share with you a real story about him then.  We were puggin, right? grizzz deadstops a jockey.  Dude on the other team says something along the lines of "damn, god level player".  grizz stops mid game while playing survivor and types "nobody is on his level" meaning god I guess.  At this point I say something along the lines of "are you kidding me, that dude isnt really saying you're fucking god, you're insane bla bla bla..." I also said fuck god or something im not sure but at this point grizz goes " god will punish you bravo ".  Being a very curious little boy I say something like "what, is he going to take my games away?"  grizz goes "no, gods punishment is death".  LIKE ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME WITH THAT SHIT? HES A FUCKING NUT JOB.

ight no problemo. Yo I'm cool with what you sayin just idk sometimes shit goes to far but whatevs :-X
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 10, 2016, 05:38:27 pm
yo now that you put it in that perspective, I agree with you about the acemod vs promod uzis.

ight no problemo. Yo I'm cool with what you sayin just idk sometimes shit goes to far but whatevs :-X
man elusive is so nice he buys bottles of water just to set it free in the ocean.

unless theres something im missing though there will never NOT be a reason to go uzi. even without its reload speed, and immobile and mobile spread drop and whatever else has done. even if it was just the promod uzi without slowdown, its always good to have? why? for a number of reasons but mostly just range. i can't speak to the shotgun buffs but i really dont think they are op at all. if people rarely went uzi before v4 then fine. a lot of what we are addressing about the tanks is facilitated then.

i think dusty said it before. we took out hr for a reason. so the tank doesnt have to be a little bitch and los himself. it should be the other way around. it just simply isnt. tank HAS TO HIDE from these uzi's FOR THE MOST PART.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Griz on December 10, 2016, 05:53:52 pm
Best luck in maintaining the community, I truly hope for the best possible outcome.

http://pastebin.com/pBVH6y5A (http://pastebin.com/pBVH6y5A)
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Bravo on December 10, 2016, 06:24:27 pm
Best luck in maintaining the community, I truly hope for the best possible outcome.

[url]http://pastebin.com/pBVH6y5A[/url] ([url]http://pastebin.com/pBVH6y5A[/url])


     I really hope you're talking about me, if so let me enlighten your shitty delusioned brain and what you think what it means to be a "man".  I moved to the states when I was 8, I attended this countries shitty public schools without knowing a lick of English and with no knowledge of the american culture and was physically and mentally bullied through elementary school because of it.  I started learning how to fit in or avoid ignorant fuck heads that ruin the public education system for others and by the time I graduated high school I had every university in California laid out in front of me to pick from.  I finished a bachelors in biology and took a year off to gather up money for graduate school.  I worked construction doing mechanical insulation and saw the worst of the worst.  Cavemen honestly. 

     I have been through my fair share of experience so far and I dont need a brainwashed fuck boy that says god will kill me if I make a little fun in video games and talk some shit.  A year ago you would clock in 120+ hours a week in this game and rage at your teammates for every single thing.  Now you're sucking on gods huge invisible cock and talking like you just received your doctorates in English.  Don't fucking fool yourself with your own nonsense because you sure as hell dont seem very intelligent in other peoples eyes, you come off as a fucking nut job.  Btw this took me 2 minutes to type with about 1 minute of preparation. 
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 10, 2016, 06:26:27 pm
Best luck in maintaining the community, I truly hope for the best possible outcome.

[url]http://pastebin.com/pBVH6y5A[/url] ([url]http://pastebin.com/pBVH6y5A[/url])

I Think people were thrown off by the dog metaphor. ive had hour long convos with matt and he's one of the smartest and well spoken people here. i wouldn't dismiss anyone's perspective simply because they were religious or belonged to a religion different than my own. thats a very narrow way of thinking and you can't do that in life.

and i dont think its a reach at all to say that acemod is, in general, a config that is better for the individual. you get to run around and shoot stuff with more powerful weapons and are less reliant on your teammates. the idea when we first nerfed survivors back in the original frus mod and then later confogl for l4d2 was to force the then OP survivors to play as a team more. and hey guess what. survivors kept getting better and better. so thats why im dumbfounded as to why we suddenly thought we needed to buff them.

and fwiw i always said what the community lacked as a whole are people with initiative. people with initiative that sustained teams over the years include myself prodigysim dawkins dusty supra zeon/ymtisd, bravo purple phil cooljerk hib frankophone intel dylan kekkeri daniel and of course grizz.

this short list off the top of my head is definitely US Centric from people i know, and not at all a testament to skill whatsoever, but as players who took the initiative to create and organize several different teams / rosters within a team and did everything from starting the team (the difference between someone posting 'looking' and 'recruiting') which is the hardest step, scheduling with little bitches like intel who tried to get FF's, looking for scrims for hours and all the other complicated bullshit it entails.

none of that shit is fun. ppl just want to play right now. and in games like cs you can solo q or match with friends and be in a game in less than 2 minutes. not the same here. so i think you have to credit that for the lack of teams. most of them probably got bored of the game which is to be assumed. so we have a whole bunch of players who pug still and you can just pug right now. play a unserialized game, no preparation. no consequences. thats a lot more appealing than trying to get a team together and in addition to all those other things above, losing for a good majority of the time because all the experienced players remaining are one of 2 us teams essentially.

do i think promod is/was better for the scene? yes but that is of course subjective. what isn't is how overpowered these uzi's are and the undeniable buff survivors have been given. acemod 4 wasn't final. NF is working on a compromise lets try and keep the focus on that and less internet trolling please.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Dusty on December 10, 2016, 07:06:22 pm
Yes, I believe snipers and HR were bad for competitive.

Okay, to the point of what happened, during the time you didn't play, acemod was released, and with the removal of tank slowdown and removal of M2 on hunters, people started to realize how bad uzi was on its own. Acemod quickly became a 4 shotgun all the time meta. After a while some people started to say uzi needed a small buff to compensate or compete, I also thought it a good idea, as the 4 shotguns of the apocalypse became pretty boring. Visor took a stab in the dark with his buff/numbers, and now the uzi's as they are are OP.

I think if we just reverted the uzi we'd go back to the style were uzi was just underperforming compared to shotgun in acemod. I believe the buff to the uzi was a good decision, but I think the buff was overdone. I believe the best course of action would be to discuss the uzi buffs, figure what is best, and meet somewhere in the middle of vanilla and acemod current values.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Impulsive on December 10, 2016, 09:13:10 pm
Yes, I believe snipers and HR were bad for competitive.

Okay, to the point of what happened, during the time you didn't play, acemod was released, and with the removal of tank slowdown and removal of M2 on hunters, people started to realize how bad uzi was on its own. Acemod quickly became a 4 shotgun all the time meta. After a while some people started to say uzi needed a small buff to compensate or compete, I also thought it a good idea, as the 4 shotguns of the apocalypse became pretty boring. Visor took a stab in the dark with his buff/numbers, and now the uzi's as they are are OP.

I think if we just reverted the uzi we'd go back to the style were uzi was just underperforming compared to shotgun in acemod. I believe the buff to the uzi was a good decision, but I think the buff was overdone. I believe the best course of action would be to discuss the uzi buffs, figure what is best, and meet somewhere in the middle of vanilla and acemod current values.

Either use promod ~4.0 weapon balance (without buffed shotgun from acemod) or use ~v3 Acemod weapon balance (with only a reload speed buff on uzi and slightly buffed shotgun spread).

Personally, i'd go with the promod weapon balance because i feel like survivors are overbearingly strong, but I just want balanced weapons so I'm fine with the latter.

 Limit uzis regardless of what you do.

EDIT: This is done with the assumption that we agree that uzi > shotgun, which I hope we do.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 11, 2016, 01:26:40 pm
     I really hope you're talking about me, if so let me enlighten your shitty delusioned brain and what you think what it means to be a "man".  I moved to the states when I was 8, I attended this countries shitty public schools without knowing a lick of English and with no knowledge of the american culture and was physically and mentally bullied through elementary school because of it.  I started learning how to fit in or avoid ignorant fuck heads that ruin the public education system for others and by the time I graduated high school I had every university in California laid out in front of me to pick from.  I finished a bachelors in biology and took a year off to gather up money for graduate school.  I worked construction doing mechanical insulation and saw the worst of the worst.  Cavemen honestly. 

     I have been through my fair share of experience so far and I dont need a brainwashed fuck boy that says god will kill me if I make a little fun in video games and talk some shit.  A year ago you would clock in 120+ hours a week in this game and rage at your teammates for every single thing.  Now you're sucking on gods huge invisible cock and talking like you just received your doctorates in English.  Don't fucking fool yourself with your own nonsense because you sure as hell dont seem very intelligent in other peoples eyes, you come off as a fucking nut job.  Btw this took me 2 minutes to type with about 1 minute of preparation.
if there's anything that our schools teach its how the bullied has become the bullies themselves. best of luck to you matt, dont dwell on this single individual's animosity towards you and your faith.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Bravo on December 11, 2016, 04:48:31 pm
if there's anything that our schools teach its how the bullied has become the bullies themselves. best of luck to you matt, dont dwell on this single individual's animosity towards you and your faith.

yeah meanwhile when I join pug lobbies to talk to you about how crazy grizz is you sarcastically laugh and blatantly joke about him and his faith.  The difference is I dont give a fuck about his faith, everyone has the right to believe what they want.  It is the way he presents himself.  I guess you dont have the balls to talk about it here, instead you do it in pug lobbies and come here in his rescue when clearly you laugh about him when hes not there.  You're really effecting positive change sheriff shade!
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 11, 2016, 05:50:52 pm
yeah meanwhile when I join pug lobbies to talk to you about how crazy grizz is you sarcastically laugh and blatantly joke about him and his faith.  The difference is I dont give a fuck about his faith, everyone has the right to believe what they want.  It is the way he presents himself.  I guess you dont have the balls to talk about it here, instead you do it in pug lobbies and come here in his rescue when clearly you laugh about him when hes not there.  You're really effecting positive change sheriff shade!
i wasnt laughing at his faith. i was laughing at the randomness of the junkyard dog metaphor and how clearly a lot of people including you weren't able to interpret it. i noticed you mocked him for that but i thought it was a brilliant bridge to what he was trying to say. I've had long talks with Matt. the way he presents himself is extremely well spoken.

regarding his faith. well i dont want to make this a religious discussion but as far as christianity goes, his faith which he told me about focuses only on what actually is present in the bible as opposed to other denominations that go beyond the bible.

i think he's a nice guy. i think he's a smart guy. there's a lot of smart people in this community. if you don't believe me try rereading any of his two contributions to this discussion for positive change. in fact, after being ridiculed for his faith, by you here, he says he wishes for the best possible outcome for this community. i'd say thats presenting himself in a very mature way.

 
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Bravo on December 11, 2016, 06:01:31 pm
i wasnt laughing at his faith. i was laughing at the randomness of the junkyard dog metaphor and how clearly a lot of people including you weren't able to interpret it. i noticed you mocked him for that but i thought it was a brilliant bridge to what he was trying to say. I've had long talks with Matt. the way he presents himself is extremely well spoken.

regarding his faith. well i dont want to make this a religious discussion but as far as christianity goes, his faith which he told me about focuses only on what actually is present in the bible as opposed to other denominations that go beyond the bible.

i think he's a nice guy. i think he's a smart guy. there's a lot of smart people in this community. if you don't believe me try rereading any of his two contributions to this discussion for positive change. in fact, after being ridiculed for his faith, by you here, he says he wishes for the best possible outcome for this community. i'd say thats presenting himself in a very mature way.

Not sure who you're trying to fool here, you straight up mocked and laughed when I mentioned him in mumble.  You can keep lying to... I dont even know who... lol.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 11, 2016, 06:09:58 pm
Not sure who you're trying to fool here, you straight up mocked and laughed when I mentioned him in mumble.  You can keep lying to... I dont even know who... lol.
i wasnt laughing at his faith. i was laughing at the randomness of the junkyard dog metaphor and how clearly a lot of people including you weren't able to interpret it. i noticed you mocked him for that but i thought it was a brilliant bridge to what he was trying to say. believe it or not but throughout history  a lot of people  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci) that were ahead of their time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei) were mocked for the things they believed and said only to recognized later.     

i notice you have had about 0 contribution to this thread for positive change towards the configs. matt has allotted hours to the benefit of this community. why don't we quit it with the off topic internet trolling and get back on topic?
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: High Cookie on December 12, 2016, 03:31:50 am
To help steer the conversation back on course and because a lot of what people have said has not really taken changes in the configs properly into consideration.

There's been a lot of "The uzis were fine in promod"  // "Change the uzis back to how they were in promod"

Acemod is a different config:
There's no slow down on tank
no hunter deadstops
jockey skeeting

The uzi is at a disadvantage in Acemod that goes beyond gun stats, stop suggesting promod values for acemod. (Directed at nobody in particular).

As for comparisons between the configs, most people still don't understand hybrid scoring so its an almost impossible conversation.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Donald Trump on December 12, 2016, 03:57:02 am
Now the Visor has left l4d to america, we need to build a wall. A great big wall between the USA and the EU. It'll be great. Trust me. I know walls. It'll be a yuge success.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Donald Trump on December 12, 2016, 03:59:03 am
By wall I mean Fire wall. It's time to get away from it all. we need to make LTD great again.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: NF on December 12, 2016, 06:24:56 am
The shotguns in acemod and the shotguns in promod are not the same. The chrome is very heavily buffed in acemod whereas in promod the chrome/pump are more similar. You could practically snipe with the chrome its range was so good. This also contributed to the uzi/shotgun disparity pre-uzi buff.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: 3yebex on December 12, 2016, 08:48:49 am
I could be wrong, but I think the uzi/smg were unbuffed on Hot Mess servers? I was playing Acemod last night and I swear it felt like they were inaccurate while moving again.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Impulsive on December 12, 2016, 02:21:12 pm
To help steer the conversation back on course and because a lot of what people have said has not really taken changes in the configs properly into consideration.

There's been a lot of "The uzis were fine in promod"  // "Change the uzis back to how they were in promod"

Acemod is a different config:
There's no slow down on tank
no hunter deadstops
jockey skeeting

The uzi is at a disadvantage in Acemod that goes beyond gun stats, stop suggesting promod values for acemod. (Directed at nobody in particular).

As for comparisons between the configs, most people still don't understand hybrid scoring so its an almost impossible conversation.

This point is valid, but also ignores the fact that the uzi got buffed because the shotgun got buffed. Yes, dead stops aided the uzi more than shotgun but it still helped shotgun. Yes, Jockey skeeting is a fun and sometimes useful thing to do but no one is taking a shotgun purely because they can now skeet jockies. Shotgun shells also, in fact, slowed the tank down (woah). While everything that you listed did help uzi more than the shotgun, the game's weapon balance didn't hang on these insanely intricate values. The main reason that people wanted an uzi buff was to compensate for the insane shotgun buff of Acemod v2 - whether they realized it or not. I would venture that the main reason why Promod weapon balance is being considered is because survivors are blatantly overpowered in their current state. Regardless, I think weapon balance in v3 is fine and if that's what people are more comfortable with then go for it, i just am sick of nospread uzis.

Scoring systems don't majorly affect game play - they are just a way to assess how well survivors did. Granted, people played differently in HB than they did in hybrid bonus, but the core issue isn't coming from how people play - it comes from the balance of the game.

Also what's so complicated about hybrid scoring? There's points based off of permanent health and points deducted by damage taken after a survivor's perm health is depleted...

Acemod may be a different config but it's still the same game
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: High Cookie on December 12, 2016, 03:16:34 pm
I was talking about why it is ignorant to say Acemod suzi should have promod values. I haven't ignored anything.

Scoring systems don't majorly affect game play - they are just a way to assess how well survivors did. Granted, people played differently in HB than they did in hybrid bonus, but the core issue isn't coming from how people play - it comes from the balance of the game.

you cant say how they don't effect the game and then talk about how they effect the game. I don't get what you're trying to say here

Acemod may be a different config but it's still the same game

What are you trying to say?, that all the changes are fruitless because its always the same game?
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: ElusivΣ on December 12, 2016, 06:34:40 pm
I was talking about why it is ignorant to say Acemod suzi should have promod values. I haven't ignored anything.

you cant say how they don't effect the game and then talk about how they effect the game. I don't get what you're trying to say here

What are you trying to say?, that all the changes are fruitless because its always the same game?

I fuckin highly agree cuz damage bonus is what makes acemod and eq totally different obv.  You can't just send a downed bleeder to soak up damage and not pay for it.  We all should know how damage bonus works cuz it's pretty simple to comprehend.  But obv it's a way different mindset and gameplay style compared to any config before the implementation of damage bonus imo.  At least in scrims(when that shit was a thing lel), I focused on the mechanics and scoring style of acemod/eq way more than in pugs and my playstyle changed accordingly.  So changing weapon reload speed, spread, or any weapon properties affect gun mechanics not the config as a whole.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Impulsive on December 12, 2016, 09:11:56 pm
I was talking about why it is ignorant to say Acemod suzi should have promod values. I haven't ignored anything.

you cant say how they don't effect the game and then talk about how they effect the game. I don't get what you're trying to say here

What are you trying to say?, that all the changes are fruitless because its always the same game?

The only difference between hb and hybrid is that people in hb tended to sponge attacks when they were on low hp. The scoring system is irrelevent in respect to weapon balance which is the crux of the issue here.

Perhaps it was unclear, but I was saying that despite the minute config differences regarding interactions between deadstops, the scoring system, and jockey skeeting, the best way to tackle weapon balance is to attack the value of the weapons themselves. I don't understand why you'd change every other factor in the game to balance weapons rather than just changing the weapons themselves. So yes, configuration changes is a fruitless endeavor for weapon balance if you try to indirectly balance weapons through external factors. Promod's and Acemod v3's weapon balance will be relatively equal regardless of other configuration differences because they will both kill at the exact same rate

idk man i think you ignored my entire post

I fuckin highly agree cuz damage bonus is what makes acemod and eq totally different obv.  You can't just send a downed bleeder to soak up damage and not pay for it.  We all should know how damage bonus works cuz it's pretty simple to comprehend.  But obv it's a way different mindset and gameplay style compared to any config before the implementation of damage bonus imo.  At least in scrims(when that shit was a thing lel), I focused on the mechanics and scoring style of acemod/eq way more than in pugs and my playstyle changed accordingly.

eq has hybrid bonus and how you take hits does nothing to how well weapons kill evil zombos
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: ElusivΣ on December 12, 2016, 09:32:51 pm
eq has hybrid bonus and how you take hits does nothing to how well weapons kill evil zombos

ight I forgot about that hybrid scoring difference.  Thanks for reminding and correcting me.  I'ma re-read eq 3.0 or whatever cuz i forgot.  But uh idk I feel like weapon property changes don't affect the config compared to major survivor or infected changes or new plugins in my opinion.  Honestly idc at all, I play whatever regardless ez so /thread for me.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: High Cookie on December 12, 2016, 10:03:28 pm
I have not ignored your post, you have misinterpreted mine. I was not talking about hybrid bonus with reference to the guns, I was just saying a forum discussion comparing configs is difficult when not everyone understands the differences.

I don't understand why you'd change every other factor in the game to balance weapons rather than just changing the weapons themselves.

You're implying that hunter deadstop was to nerf suzi. The changes arn't put in for the sake of weapon balance, they are already in the config and should be accounted for when considering weapon balance. That's all I'm trying to say.

Of course you need to change the gun values to balance guns, and my server is currently the only one (I think) with reduced suzi/uzi stats on V4.

So yes, configuration changes is a fruitless endeavor for weapon balance if you try to indirectly balance weapons through external factors. Promod's and Acemod v3's weapon balance will be relatively equal regardless of other configuration differences because they will both kill at the exact same rate

No, having mechanics that make it harder to cap a person with a particular gun, is a very important balance factor.
Just play a few rounds of 1v1 hunters with suzi and SG with deadstop on and then off. On of those guns will play almost the same, one will be a wipe fest after turning deadstop off. How is this not an important factor when comparing the guns and their stats?

EDIT: 1v1 just because it makes the issue more obvious
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Impulsive on December 12, 2016, 10:43:22 pm
I have not ignored your post, you have misinterpreted mine. I was not talking about hybrid bonus with reference to the guns, I was just saying a forum discussion comparing configs is difficult when not everyone understands the differences.

You're implying that hunter deadstop was to nerf suzi. The changes arn't put in for the sake of weapon balance, they are already in the config and should be accounted for when considering weapon balance. That's all I'm trying to say.

Of course you need to change the gun values to balance guns, and my server is currently the only one (I think) with reduced suzi/uzi stats on V4.

No, having mechanics that make it harder to cap a person with a particular gun, is a very important balance factor.
Just play a few rounds of 1v1 hunters with suzi and SG with deadstop on and then off. On of those guns will play almost the same, one will be a wipe fest after turning deadstop off. How is this not an important factor when comparing the guns and their stats?

I do understand where your coming from - deadstops disproportionaly aid uzis in comparison to shotgun. As does slowdown, although quad shotgun slowdown is a very lethal thing but i am slightly sidetracked. I don't believe that 1v1 ability is that relatable to a 4v4 scenario, so i'll pass on your suggestion. As far as damage output, even in promod, uzis do have the advantage which i believe outweighs the cons of being unable to kill hunters. I'm just going to conclude this on the note that i do not think that the change in deadstops justifed the reload buff - the change to shotgun spread did. I think that promod weapon balance in Acemod's configuration environment will stilll balanced - but things such as these do need to be tested.

This is /thread for me i've typed too many words
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: High Cookie on December 12, 2016, 11:22:34 pm
As far as damage output, even in promod, uzis do have the advantage which i believe outweighs the cons of being unable to kill hunters. I'm just going to conclude this on the note that i do not think that the change in deadstops justifed the reload buff - the change to shotgun spread did. I think that promod weapon balance in Acemod's configuration environment will stilll balanced - but things such as these do need to be tested.

Acemod V3 was extremely shotgun heavy, which is why Visor buffed the suzi/uzi in the first place. Acemod V3 had the same values as the promod gold standard. Using the old values will make everyone go back to using SG only, like they already were.

I understand your argument, I completely disagree with it and so does the historical evidence.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Impulsive on December 12, 2016, 11:41:08 pm
nvm fuck everything
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: High Cookie on December 13, 2016, 04:48:22 am
No, I mean V3

shotgun had a halfway nerf

V2 Values

// Pump settings
sm_weapon pumpshotgun damage 14
sm_weapon pumpshotgun bullets 20
sm_weapon pumpshotgun scatterpitch 4.5
sm_weapon pumpshotgun scatteryaw 4.5

// Chrome settings
sm_weapon shotgun_chrome damage 16
sm_weapon shotgun_chrome bullets 16
sm_weapon shotgun_chrome scatterpitch 3.0
sm_weapon shotgun_chrome scatteryaw 3.0

V3 Values

// Pump settings
sm_weapon pumpshotgun damage 14
sm_weapon pumpshotgun bullets 20
sm_weapon pumpshotgun scatterpitch 4.5
sm_weapon pumpshotgun scatteryaw 4.5

// Chrome settings
sm_weapon shotgun_chrome damage 16
sm_weapon shotgun_chrome bullets 16
sm_weapon shotgun_chrome scatterpitch 3.25
sm_weapon shotgun_chrome scatteryaw 3.25

Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 13, 2016, 08:41:43 am
Agree with High Cookie on almost all of what he has said.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: 3yebex on December 14, 2016, 03:18:30 am
For those of you that want Uzi/SMG slowdown back in favor of making the tank it's original speed again -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E13-7rgim6U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E13-7rgim6U)
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: ElusivΣ on December 14, 2016, 01:38:58 pm
For those of you that want Uzi/SMG slowdown back in favor of making the tank it's original speed again -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E13-7rgim6U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E13-7rgim6U)


yeeeaaaa nahhhh i'm good LMFAO damn the slowdown
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 14, 2016, 02:07:23 pm
For those of you that want Uzi/SMG slowdown back in favor of making the tank it's original speed again -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E13-7rgim6U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E13-7rgim6U)
let's tackle one thing at a time. first and foremost the uzi's need to be nerfed. go from there. i listed a lot of criticisms but addressing the uzi problem fixes most of them if only incidentally. daniel likes to say all the good players like acemod and these super uzi's as it is / they are. well daniel. i dont think that my good friend dr. kevin 'purple cow' kakkerich would be so inclined to agree with you after asking him yesterday. guess he's not good enough for u.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 14, 2016, 02:36:08 pm
purple sucks but he prefers acemod to promod, I have no doubts about that. I'm sure he also thinks slowdown is stupid. He'd just say that the uzi is too good, but every shotgun only player says that anyway so their opinions are kinda bias. The uzi required a buff and that's that. Go find promod 3.5 and pay for your own servers if you want to play it. Aside from that you're just going to have to suck it and play acemod.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Sanchez on December 14, 2016, 03:08:06 pm

Acemod is very survivor heavy and that's it. Someone might not like but it's the most skill balanced mod that we have. Cause actually teams have to play like four players.
There's no more good tank that gonna E+SPACEBAR from the roof and wipe alone, you have to support. And your support has to be synced decently, like any attack on Acemod due to the OP weapons.
There's no front shotgun mad carrier that gonna do 49% mvp and eat 70% damage like ''who cares im not losing bonus after the first incap'', gotta watch yourself and the others way more.
There's no ''we are bad specials so let's go all on one and land a spit, it will be 200 damage anyway, couple spits every map and we did our job''.

I'm not sure how a scratching hunter is a problem, if you are AT LEAST clearing commons OR watching spawns you should see him coming. And eating 6 dmg or 12 if you are slow won't doom your team that much (especially on a mod where SI sucks). On another hand it will doom slightly the opponent team cause they will lose a key SI for they attack and good luck doing damage in 3 vs acemod guns lel

Carni 3 was a fairly ok map for good teams, now with spit nerf the first part is even way easier. Late tank is balanced, probably more than early ones. I agree that is a long and boring map but wathever.

Was shotgun in v3 a bit OP? Probably yes.
Is smg in v4 a bit OP? Probably yes, but at least you can't skeet everything and tank support (hunter pls) is hard to deal with.

Who cares, i doubt that we will ever reach total perfection in l4d2, even ultra competitive and played game are getting patched every two weeks for some minor fixes. But still Acemod fixed a lot of my complaints when i started to play this (i'm not a very old player ^_^).
And anyway Danne and Dusty gave us already enough argumentations about this topic. And they are top players AND pretty active players so their opinions are more or less representing a lot of very good players from both usa and europe.

Funny fact: while being very competitive and skill based, Acemod has became also the favourite mod of new competitive players  cause it's very rewarding: very funny survivor gameplay (rekt them SI), easily reaching saferoom and not a lot of wipes (0 depression).
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 14, 2016, 03:50:14 pm
And anyway Danne and Dusty gave us already enough argumentations about this topic. And they are top players AND pretty active players so their opinions are more or less representing a lot of very good players from both usa and europe.

so we're just ignoring everyone else who said the uzi's are OP. why is one persons opinion more important to you than another? what about visor and jacob? i guess im not a top player since my opinion doesnt matter but somehow i can hold m1 and get easy suzi skeets but then i must be a top player if you said you cant do that so maybe then it does oh man maybe we can catch 22 other ppl and ask them
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Sanchez on December 14, 2016, 04:59:57 pm
so we're just ignoring everyone else who said the uzi's are OP
Mmm... no? No one is getting ignored.

Quote
why is one persons opinion more important to you than another?

I like their argumentations, they have some solid basics about this game and still play it often and doing good, and their opinions are probably shared by a lot of good players cause usually in my personal experience only noobs cry about the removal of jumprocks or m2.

But i already stated this in my previous post. It's like a motivated ''+1'' since i like to explain my thoughts.
Also they are the first two that came in my mind, there are other solid opinions but i don't care about quoting everyone.

Quote
what about visor and jacob?
What exactly? What should i say about them?

Quote
i guess im not a top player since my opinion doesnt matter
No idea of who you are but you are guessing wrong cause i never said ALL good players think Acemod > Promod.
If you are not a top player the reasons are others i guess, but i repeat that i don't know you.

Quote
somehow i can hold m1 and get easy suzi skeets
I talked about the OP smg gameplay vs OP Shotgun gameplay and an easy smg skeet is still harder than an easy shotgun skeet (and while the shotgun is usually worse than smg it's still needed in a lot of maps, while in v3 people often ignored completely smg).
I'm happy for you if you can skeet with SMG.

Quote
then i must be a top player if you said you cant
Where i said i can't smg skeet? Especially being the smg/positional player in every team i played i don't think i have any issues with that weapon.

----

I am not reevaluating your opinions by a post that contains one wrong assumption every ten words >_>
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 14, 2016, 06:21:19 pm
i dont think danne and dusty represent everyone. i cant speak to the EU scene but the majority of US players ive talked to about it acknowledge that the smg is clearly overpowered. 
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: 3yebex on December 14, 2016, 06:39:49 pm
Mmm... no? No one is getting ignored.

I'm being ignored  :'(

I keep saying don't nerf the uzi/smg back to it's useless state, just increase drop-off damage of both the uzi/smg and the shotguns because both do too much damage at longer distances. Everyone would much rather you have to stand and shoot like CS:GO with the uzi/smg rather than move and shoot like Quake.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Atreyu on December 15, 2016, 02:09:21 am
i dont think danne and dusty represent everyone. i cant speak to the EU scene but the majority of US players ive talked to about it acknowledge that the smg is clearly overpowered.

I can't speak for everyone in EU, but most of the active people that are participating in tournaments/cups prefer Acemod. It's like sanchez said, it's the most competitive mod that's been around... at least in the last 3 years.
The thing is, where are we going? Do we build up cfg's for the casual mixplaying or do we build up cfg's for some kind of a competition? (funny to say in l4d2)

I'm very happy with Acemod how it is right now..
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 15, 2016, 12:12:40 pm
I can't speak for everyone in EU, but most of the active people that are participating in tournaments/cups prefer Acemod. It's like sanchez said, it's the most competitive mod that's been around... at least in the last 3 years.
The thing is, where are we going? Do we build up cfg's for the casual mixplaying or do we build up cfg's for some kind of a competition? (funny to say in l4d2)

I'm very happy with Acemod how it is right now..
Im very happy for you but it seems that you to be in the 'vocal minority.' I feel if anyone could articulate this dillemma we have, it's xbye. He has firsthand witnessed years and years of matches in the competitive leagues. His stream has brought several pubs into the competitive scene and also given them an anomosity towards valve and their rigged game against him. He suggested that we nerf the uzi's because they are too OP now, but so they aren't useless like before.

No one wants them so that they are useless but as it stands now you can literally hold m1 down the whole map, m2 while you reload to get an even faster reload and you are practically untouchable and can clear your teammates from farther away then you think. Tank has to hide because the only chance he has is coming in w/ a full 6k on most situations. If shotguns were the OP weapon at least this wouldn't be the case.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 15, 2016, 12:25:09 pm
Looks like everyone who still plays the game at a decent level is content with how things are at the moment more or less, with a few small edits either way. Regardless, the config is about as good as it's going to get without any devs to work on it so i'm happy to leave it as is.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 15, 2016, 12:42:31 pm
Looks like everyone except jay is more or less happy with how things are, good talk.
actually no. People in this thread who aren't happy with the OP Uzi and how things are.

1. Dr. Kevin 'Purple' Kakkerich- best player in the game. everyone knows this.
2. Fig Newtons- admin of several US tourneys
3. WON - LTD admin
4. Impulsive - active player
5. Twisted - former member of Runnin' Krew and an active player
6. xbye- streamed matches for years and discovered the various faults of Gabe 'prodigysim' Newell and the valve corporation
7. Grizz -also one of the best players to ever play the game. He had a lot of hours but no one ever disputed how good grizz was.
8. NF - Developer of promod. Not advocating to revert  to promod but like me merely to ameliorate acemod so the SMG's aren't as OP.
9. Jacob - Developer of promod
10. Visor - Developer of ACEMOD who acknowledged that the smg's were too OP and were going to fix it before the Coup against him
11. Bravo - also one of the best player whos probably played in every single tournament since 2011. He's banned now but he is against these OP uzi's
12 . Moscow - also a great player. and active
13. Elusive - hosting tournament with a really cool banner.
14. sheriff shade - the beacon of light in the darkness of night. the hero that ltd needs. takes the law into his own hands to combat the internet trolls and put aside his own desires to affect positive change for the ltd community.

And this is only in the thread. u guys are clearly outnumbered in this thread but like i said before the posting community has always been a fraction of the people who play.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 15, 2016, 12:50:16 pm
actually no. People in this thread who aren't happy with the OP Uzi and how things are.

1. Dr. Kevin 'Purple' Kakkerich- best player in the game. everyone knows this.
2. Fig Newtons- admin of several US tourneys
3. WON - LTD admin
4. Impulsive - active player
5. Twisted - former member of Runnin' Krew and an active player
6. xbye- streamed matches for years and discovered the various faults of Gabe 'prodigysim' Newell and the valve corporation
7. Grizz -also one of the best players to ever play the game. He had a lot of hours but no one ever disputed how good grizz was.
8. NF - Developer of promod. Not advocating to revert  to promod but like me merely to ameliorate acemod so the SMG's aren't as OP.
9. Jacob - Developer of promod
10. Visor - Developer of ACEMOD who acknowledged that the smg's were too OP and were going to fix it before the Coup against him
11. Bravo - also one of the best player whos probably played in every single tournament since 2011. He's banned now but he is against these OP uzi's
12 . Moscow - also a great player. and active
13. Elusive - hosting tournament with a really cool banner.
14. sheriff shade - the beacon of light in the darkness of night. the hero that ltd needs. takes the law into his own hands to combat the internet trolls and put aside his own desires to affect positive change for the ltd community.

And this is only in the thread. u guys are clearly outnumbered in this thread but like i said before the posting community has always been a fraction of the people who play.

All inactive and none in vehement opposition to acemod, just have small aspects of it that they dislike. None who have l4d2 installed will deny that uzis required a buff if the slowdown is to be removed.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 15, 2016, 02:55:46 pm
All inactive and none in vehement opposition to acemod, just have small aspects of it that they dislike. None who have l4d2 installed will deny that uzis required a buff if the slowdown is to be removed.
we're not talking about slowdown anymore. just that the uzi's are too overpowered now. imo they were probably fine before but why can't there be a middle ground between what they were and are now. 
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Dusty on December 15, 2016, 03:39:59 pm
Quote from: shade
(Insert list of people who are "unhappy" here herp derp)

Just people people decided to chime in what they think would be for the betterment of acemod, doesn't mean they are against acemod or unhappy with it. In fact my guess would be that over 75% of the list of people you just put would choose acemod over promod still, they are just here to vocalize how they feel about the matter. You seem to not really read what people post anyways since you still seem to have me on some bandwagon of people who are vehemently against changing acemod. Also don't bandwagon these people who have put their thoughts as if they agree with yours.

I sometimes can't tell if you are just the best troll to exist, but WP.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 15, 2016, 03:41:11 pm
Just people people decided to chime in what they think would be for the betterment of acemod, doesn't mean they are against acemod or unhappy with it. In fact my guess would be that over 75% of the list of people you just put would choose acemod over promod still, they are just here to vocalize how they feel about the matter. You seem to not really read what people post anyways since you still seem to have me on some bandwagon of people who are vehemently against changing acemod. Also don't bandwagon these people who have put their thoughts as if they agree with yours.

I sometimes can't tell if you are just the best troll to exist, but WP.
this isn't about promod over acemod. its fixing whats wrong with acemod. starting with nerfing the smg's. lrn2read
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Dusty on December 15, 2016, 04:10:26 pm
GUYS LOOK AT THIS LIST OF PEOPLE UNHAPPY WITH THE STATE OF ACEMOD AND UZI AND EVERYTHING WRONG WITH ACEMOD. WHAT U READ NEXT MAY SHOCK YOU.
JIM
BOB
SALLY
JIMBOB
MIZZY
JOE
SHARKKILLER316
ADAM

What jimbob actually said: "Acemod coulda been better in my opinion if they reduced the spawn timer a little bit."
jaytard: ARE YOU EVEN READING THIS? THE PEOPLE ARE IN AN OUTRAGE, ACEMOD AND ITS OPPRESSIVE UZI'S MUST... BE... CHANGED


Sorry shade, me an my bad reading comprehension will go elsewhere. GL with your quest, champ.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: sinclair on December 15, 2016, 05:10:00 pm
GUYS LOOK AT THIS LIST OF PEOPLE UNHAPPY WITH THE STATE OF ACEMOD AND UZI AND EVERYTHING WRONG WITH ACEMOD. WHAT U READ NEXT MAY SHOCK YOU.
JIM
BOB
SALLY
JIMBOB
MIZZY
JOE
SHARKKILLER316
ADAM

What jimbob actually said: "Acemod coulda been better in my opinion if they reduced the spawn timer a little bit."
jaytard: ARE YOU EVEN READING THIS? THE PEOPLE ARE IN AN OUTRAGE, ACEMOD AND ITS OPPRESSIVE UZI'S MUST... BE... CHANGED


Sorry shade, me an my bad reading comprehension will go elsewhere. GL with your quest, champ.
nice internet trolling but its pretty obvious smg's are OP. and thanks for the luck but its not necessary actually. changes will b implemented soon.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Spirit on December 15, 2016, 10:35:58 pm
Can we just nerf the Suzi already? Lmao tired of teams taking 4 suzi's every pug/scrim i play. Just go back to how it was and then nerf the shotgun a bit, ez. so you know, you won't have them people getting carried by 4 uzi's LUL
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 16, 2016, 08:30:45 am
Can we just nerf the Suzi already? Lmao tired of teams taking 4 suzi's every pug/scrim i play. Just go back to how it was and then nerf the shotgun a bit, ez. so you know, you won't have them people getting carried by 4 uzi's LUL

Not much logic being employed here, The people that are "being carried by 4 suzis" and beating you with considerable ease will still be beating you with considerable ease with worse weapons. You're too new to remember how Promod used to be in comparison to Acemod before the uzi change. All the newer teams would get wiped every single map, it was quite honestly rather pitiful to watch. I still see pugs finishing at pathetic scores of 1k to 1.5k and that's with these "super op weapons" what would happen with nerfed weapons? You don't even know what you're asking for.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: 3yebex on December 16, 2016, 10:14:13 am
You guys can quit your bitching. The Uzi/SMG has been nerfed on the Hot Mess servers for the Acemod for a while it seems. Though I saw no notice/announcement about it, so either it's a mistake or someone's trying to slip balance changes underneath everyone's noses.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Spirit on December 16, 2016, 11:31:01 am
Oh shit sorry Danne, I forgot to mention that you're the one i'm talking about that gets carried by the OP Suzi's nowadays, i have also noticed that ever since the uzi's have been OP, you're the one that's been WINNING. So Hm... I WONDER WHY YOU DON'T WANT THEM NERFED DUDE.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 16, 2016, 11:33:35 am
I don't think anything short of shooting me in the head will prevent me from being the one winning. Besides this isn't about "winning" I have no interest in tournaments anymore as the competition simply isn't there, it's far too easy and boring. Same 1-2 teams winning everything with the same 10 players.

The point, that you're clearly missing - is that any kind of change in weapons isn't going to make you good at the game, You'll still lose to the same people who you are getting beaten by now. You'll need to get good if you want to start winning, perhaps start by improving instead of blaming the weapons.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Spirit on December 16, 2016, 11:44:25 am
I'm not sure where I said I would get better by changing the weapons, I just want them not to be OP, but clearly you just want to say i'm bad at the game, so ok danne. just give me the what.. 10k hours you have? you won't stand a chance, buddy.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Firestar on December 16, 2016, 11:50:41 am
You guys can quit your bitching. The Uzi/SMG has been nerfed on the Hot Mess servers for the Acemod for a while it seems. Though I saw no notice/announcement about it, so either it's a mistake or someone's trying to slip balance changes underneath everyone's noses.

It has indeed. Getting more than a few reports of it from various people, and doesn't look like confirmation bias either.

START THE UPRISING /s
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Pariah on December 16, 2016, 11:51:59 am
I'm not sure where I said I would get better by changing the weapons, I just want them not to be OP, but clearly you just want to say i'm bad at the game, so ok danne. just give me the what.. 10k hours you have? you won't stand a chance, buddy.

I don't care about how good you or anyone else is, you're the one that started to bring me into it in a personal sense.  It makes no difference to me, what i care about is people who don't understand the game at a very basic level talking in a way that makes no sense. You throw about the term OP like you know what it means. For starters, Do you know why the Uzi was given a buff in acemod to begin with?
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: hib on December 18, 2016, 11:49:27 am
1.I'm positive that slowdown from one uzi makes you slower than an acemod tank, and it's was only exacerbated with multiple.

Yeah, well instead of getting rid of slowdown completely, they should have lowered the percentage to half or so. Because, the tanks speed in promod, was good enough to make cut offs, like in hard rain 2 early tank. There needs to be more props added to certain maps, like swamp fever 2 (near the airplane).  Open area choke points (ex: swamp 2, after the plane event, etc) shouldn't be too easy to holdout SI.

To me, the game has become less dynamic and more static. People want to hold out the tank in certain spots instead of trying to come up with new strats making this game really bland. Although, I didn't like the shotgun being buffed in Acemod V2/V3, Bravo's team started playing highly aggressive on the tank which I liked and hated at the same time. I liked it because they took advantage of the configs changes, however, tanks should be a forced to be reckoned with. The tank itself should be able to down at least 1 player max. With slowdown, it grants the survivors to be able to juke the tank, if timed correctly. When the tank isn't being slowed down, it grants him a window of opportunity to get hone in on survivors, whereas Acemod tanks, once SI are dead, it's basically completely useless. Acemod tanks = once you commit, you basically HAVE to stay in because a low hp tank really doesnt do shit in this mod, especially if survivors decide to push forward (maps like parish, dark carnival, swamp). Promod tanks = you can get out, and even if survivors push forwards, the tank was able to cover alot of ground and catch up to the rushing survivors, and if it's SI are up, the tank is able to position itself for a rock).


This is what I think would be best.
1-Minimal uzi slowdown on Tank. Give tank promod speed values.
2-Get rid of the reload buff on the uzi, keep the uzi spread buff on, remove drop down damage from uzi from far distance.
3-Allow hunters to get m2'd while on the ground, no m2s on hunters while in the air, and add wallkicks back to hunters.
4-Keep acemod values of melee weapons
5-Removal of the knife (makes it too easy to kill commons, cut smoker tongues & etc.)
6-Give tank back promod rage value (I'm not 100% about this but I feel as though the tank is acemod losses rage too quickly)
     6a- allow tanks to play rock tank, and not just a YOLO commit tank feeling
7-give dualies a bit more of a buff, especially since Visor made it so people wouldn't use scripts to speed it up
8-adding small amounts of water slowdown in the map (i really liked that when tank was up, the survivors water slowdown was halved or taken away), this made it so the survivors have the option to run back or take it in a certain spot
9-add props to maps that are super wide open, not only does this help for spawns, but also LOS spots for survivors vs tanks
10-remove the 2 swipe acemod witches (these are a joke, no more shenanigans, just down the motherfucker)
11-Reintroduce the 3-1 limit for uzi/shotgun (i think people should vote on this...)
12-limit gun ammo, instead of making this game really spam oriented, have people go into locations to get ammo. (creates more "choke" points
13-change spitter damage to a value somewhere in between promod and acemod damage (so far promod=too much, acemod=too little)
14-make bleedout rate a bit faster, except during tanks
15-make spawn timers a bit longer (i really don't like spawn timers being lower, because it promotes individual/bad play)
16-BASED on the community's votes i guess... remove shooting while on ladder..again, community decides
17-IF POSSIBLE, make it so that you can press m2, to switch between spitter and boomer during tanks.
18-LASTLY (for now, unless I update this).. figure out a new health bonus system. Promod Health Bonus sucks because like people said, it allows you to sponge damage on 1 person. Acemod health bonus is okay, but sometimes it's hard to track what the fuck survivors are at) we need a fucking chat to tell us how many incaps a player has taken
EDIT:
ADD faster recharge rate for smoker tongue, it takes fucking forever to get it back, even if you escape..

!shealth or !sinfo (whatever you want to call it)
Nick/Bill: 1 incap(s)
Rochelle/Zoey: 2 incap(s)
Ellis/Francis: 0 incap(s)
Coach/Louis: 0 incap(s)


Disputable things:
- Jump rock tanks (for now, we can keep this off)
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Dusty on December 18, 2016, 10:52:02 pm
Quote
Acemod tanks = once you commit, you basically HAVE to stay in because a low hp tank really doesnt do shit in this mod, especially if survivors decide to push forward (maps like parish, dark carnival, swamp). Promod tanks = you can get out, and even if survivors push forwards, the tank was able to cover alot of ground and catch up to the rushing survivors, and if it's SI are up, the tank is able to position itself for a rock).

Im pretty tired of reading arguments like this. For what reason does acemod tank have to stay in compared to promod? You just say well you have to do this compared to this but give 0 reason why, same with shade.

Maybe you think it's the 5 or 10MS or whatever it is, maybe you think its because of the guns. But for fucks sake boys, If you make an argument you have to say why, didn't we learn this in middle school essay writing? You guys are giving the buns of the essay with no meat. I don't agree that 10MS makes the difference in staying in or getting out, slowdown was way more likely to fuck you trying to get out than the 10MS would IMO.

Heres my 18 cents on your list though....

1. I don't think slowdown is needed at all, but even if there was, I'm not sure if it's something that can be toggled just on/off or if you can have a middle ground.
2. This is almost exactly what I said would be a near fair fix to the uzi.
3. I think this is also fair, another downside to running uzi is that you are vulnerable to wallkicks.
4. Agree
5. Agree
6. I don't think there was any change to the speed tank loses rage, I think just the time in which tank doesnt lose rage in acemod was higher, But I may be wrong on this, and if I am show me some values.
7. I agree that dualies/magnum could use tweaking, as it is melee is almost always the superior choice, and dualies or magnum are the fun/there wasn't a melee to grab option.
8. I'm happy with water slowdown removal, it really just made maps feel like, oh well we can't go in water or we autowipe, or shutdown everything near perfect.
9. I'm happy with the props that are currently in, If you had suggestions for other areas to add props too, I wouldn't be against it.
10. I dislike witches all together, They are way too buggy and random. Sometimes they bug out on nothing, sometimes they will smack you from out of even crowning distance. I think nerfing her damage was a good move in the right direction. Maybe just remove the knockback and you take 48 damage or something along these lines if the smack is really what displeases people.
11. Im fine with a gun limit, 3-1. 2-2. It adds a different type of stratagem to the game, that I personally like.
12. I feel like the current ammo counts are fine.
13. I'm happy with current spitter values, It's basically a no skill free damage SI. 99% of the time. You land a cap, you get like 2-12 damage based on how fast they get cleared, or stuck in spit.
14. What would this achieve? Making it harder for survivors to make maps? I believe it's good for survivors to make maps, or do you feel its not punishing enough to get someone bleeding? I'd need some insight to why anyone would want this change.
15. I'm not sure how this affects individual/bad play. because infected can go in solo and get their spawns sooner? good survivor play just goes forward in the map if this happens, hopefully through chokepoints. Im personally happy with spawn timers.
16. ***TRIGGER WARNING***While I agree there was some skill in how teams took ladder chokepoints, some were just so stupid and were free damage for infected unless they fucked up. Im happy to have this change, and probably wouldn't play a config that changed it back.
17. Sure I suppose, decent QOL change.
18. You want us to find a new scoring system because counting to two is troublesome? I mean, when survivors get up being black and white, the person picking up says a voiceline making it clear. I don't think its much of a problem keeping track of AT MOST, 8 incaps. The only gripe I have with acemod scoring is that I've been told that scratching a bleeding survivor aka DB, for say 6 damage, takes away more points than scratching someone with HB for the same amount. I haven't tested this personally, but that seems backwards of how it should be, at least in my eyes.
EDIT aka 19. Its fast enough to have it back up if you respawn and attack again with your team, I personally never seen this as a problem.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: NF on December 18, 2016, 11:54:44 pm
The knife is not due to the config. Tell shitty server owners to stop forcing it to spawn through plugins and overriding configs for their own personal enjoyment.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: High Cookie on December 19, 2016, 12:45:17 am
18-LASTLY (for now, unless I update this).. figure out a new health bonus system. Promod Health Bonus sucks because like people said, it allows you to sponge damage on 1 person. Acemod health bonus is okay, but sometimes it's hard to track what the fuck survivors are at) we need a fucking chat to tell us how many incaps a player has taken
EDIT:

!shealth or !sinfo (whatever you want to call it)
Nick/Bill: 1 incap(s)
Rochelle/Zoey: 2 incap(s)
Ellis/Francis: 0 incap(s)
Coach/Louis: 0 incaps(s)

In hybrid bonus they either have perm health, or they don't. Incaps don't matter at all.

Unless you want to know who is BW.
Keeping track of that is part of the game and was more important in classic health scoring.

The real issue with hybrid it frequently goes to 0 with teams that still finish the map.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: hib on December 19, 2016, 03:04:31 am
In hybrid bonus they either have perm health, or they don't. Incaps don't matter at all.

Unless you want to know who is BW.
Keeping track of that is part of the game and was more important in classic health scoring.

The real issue with hybrid it frequently goes to 0 with teams that still finish the map.

Yeah, but health bonus is still the majority of the health. 60ish % or so. Then you have damage bonus at 35% and pills at a 5%. (I'm not sure the exact values but I'm using this to represent how dumb it can be). Aside from that, the same concept of sponging a person still applies here, the only difference is that the person taking the damage gets penalized more.

@NF, yeah I know and I get it, it's not the config, its the server's configuration settings that enable the knife, I'm just stating that it's unneccesary and it's overpowered. All melee weapons, except for the tonfa have the same speed by default, then you have a knife, that in comparison with a baseball bat or fireaxe, is "about" 3-5x quicker (again, I'm not xbye and I'm not going to go to the extent of making a video neither).

@Dusty
Im pretty tired of reading arguments like this. For what reason does acemod tank have to stay in compared to promod? You just say well you have to do this compared to this but give 0 reason why, same with shade.

Maybe you think it's the 5 or 10MS or whatever it is, maybe you think its because of the guns. But for fucks sake boys, If you make an argument you have to say why, didn't we learn this in middle school essay writing? You guys are giving the buns of the essay with no meat. I don't agree that 10MS makes the difference in staying in or getting out, slowdown was way more likely to fuck you trying to get out than the 10MS would IMO.

I was getting to that, but I didn't have enough time since I actually have a life, Dusty. But continuing from what I said before.

1) Acemod (with no slowdown, and SUPER uzis)
- Since tank is at similar speed as survivors, when it tries to exit, survivors can spam m1 on the tank from almost any given range since the distance drop damage is ridiculously high for this gun. Aside from that, when the tank is trying to escape, "for a recommit", a person who has an uzi (with the current fast reload), can empty a clip and get half of the second clip onto him as well.

2) Promod
Same situation, I'm not saying promod is better but yeah. If a survivor is shooting a tank, the tank has to deal with slowdown as it is escaping (which can get annoying) but at the same time, as soon as that survivor stops shooting at the tank he can escape. Also, remember, slowndown doesn't stack, however the timing of the slowdown is dependent on the timing of survivors shooting the tank. You can either a) shoot him all at the same time and deal max damage, or b) shoot him 1 at a time, and maximize the slowdown time on it. Also, I'm pretty sure there isn't slowdown when

*Simply put, alot of people don't realize that when you make a change to "fix" or balance something, it has effects on other things.
Giving Uzi quicker reload in order to keep in par with the shotgun, makes tank play a lot more static. "JUST GO TO AN OPEN AREA AND SPAM THE TANK, DONT WORRY GUYS WE HAVE UZI, SPAM THE SI TOO!!"... having an uzi with little drop off damage is ridiculous especially in open maps. I think in Acemod V5, there isn't really a reason to take shotgun unless you're crowning a witch. The optimal gun to take is Uzi, since you can clear teammates from a mile away, plus since you have less spread, you can run shoot people who are smoked (smoker tongues) without having to stop to aim. Not only that, but if you're dealing with SI from a good distance from the tank, you can still shoot it from far away and deal a shit load of damage due to low drop off damage.

Fix would be: (for acemod)
- Have UZI/SMG drop off damage lowered to mid-range from current long-range values
- removal of quick uzi reload



1. I don't think slowdown is needed at all, but even if there was, I'm not sure if it's something that can be toggled just on/off or if you can have a middle ground.

I'm sure there's cvar/defined variable that says how much slowdown a gun does. Just change the value from to half (ex: 0.01 to 0.005) and test it.   easy... -__-

2. This is almost exactly what I said would be a near fair fix to the uzi.
if uzi is underpowered as people say it is (like how danne says, in comparison to shotgun when talking about Acemod mechanics), maybe instead of giving it quicker reload, and more accuracy while running, just buff it a bit damage wise, so getting rid of the reducing the drop off damage too. (Give uzi less ammo as well, too much ammo = more uzi spamming). There's a reason why there is ammo piles on the maps, as well as other guns.

3. I think this is also fair, another downside to running uzi is that you are vulnerable to wallkicks.
Yeah, definitely put thought into this as well. Survivors shouldn't be running and gunning into rooms. IT would be interesting if we readded bacteria sounds, in order to know what to expect. haha lol kinda joking but cool throwback idea

6. I don't think there was any change to the speed tank loses rage, I think just the time in which tank doesnt lose rage in acemod was higher, But I may be wrong on this, and if I am show me some values.
Well, I'll put it to you this way Dusty, since the tank is "slower" in acemod (it technically has less rage), tank speed in promod is alot quicker (without being shotdown with slowdown).

7. I agree that dualies/magnum could use tweaking, as it is melee is almost always the superior choice, and dualies or magnum are the fun/there wasn't a melee to grab option.
It's hard to say what to do with this. Maybe add more accuracy to dualies, or damage? Any ideas would be appreciated for this.

8. I'm happy with water slowdown removal, it really just made maps feel like, oh well we can't go in water or we autowipe, or shutdown everything near perfect.
I'm not saying we should have complete water slowdown as previous configs, but there definitely should be some minor slowdown. Teams in the past had no problem dealing with tanks in water, aside that tanks before weren't able to curve rock before.

9. I'm happy with the props that are currently in, If you had suggestions for other areas to add props too, I wouldn't be against it.
Yeah, and by this I mean, super open areas.

10. I dislike witches all together, They are way too buggy and random. Sometimes they bug out on nothing, sometimes they will smack you from out of even crowning distance. I think nerfing her damage was a good move in the right direction. Maybe just remove the knockback and you take 48 damage or something along these lines if the smack is really what displeases people.
She also takes forever to kill someone, when she punches someone at a distance in comparison to getting hit once. Witch is stupid in general and yeah it's buggy and dumb. I kinda like it because it changes the pace of the game.

13. I'm happy with current spitter values, It's basically a no skill free damage SI. 99% of the time. You land a cap, you get like 2-12 damage based on how fast they get cleared, or stuck in spit.

&

14. What would this achieve? Making it harder for survivors to make maps? I believe it's good for survivors to make maps, or do you feel its not punishing enough to get someone bleeding? I'd need some insight to why anyone would want this change.
I'll get back to you on this, k.


18. You want us to find a new scoring system because counting to two is troublesome? I mean, when survivors get up being black and white, the person picking up says a voiceline making it clear. I don't think its much of a problem keeping track of AT MOST, 8 incaps. The only gripe I have with acemod scoring is that I've been told that scratching a bleeding survivor aka DB, for say 6 damage, takes away more points than scratching someone with HB for the same amount. I haven't tested this personally, but that seems backwards of how it should be, at least in my eyes.
In a way, I like damage bonus only since it promotes no one taking "free" damage, but then again, you dont get rewarded for perm hp.
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Captain Falcon on December 19, 2016, 03:35:01 am
Make tank base speed same as survivors (promod base speed) and enable slowdown that is capped at acemod tank speed xDDDDDDDDDDD
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: Sanchez on December 19, 2016, 08:51:50 am
2-Get rid of the reload buff on the uzi, keep the uzi spread buff on, remove drop down damage from uzi from far distance.
I think that the only problem about the uzi in Acemod (survivor>infected.config) is that it deals too much damage on long distance, so the config doesn't reward properly the infected team catching off guard some survivors that splitted from the team. For example smokers are a joke in this mod.
With no tank slowdown faster reload is really needed. But still the spread should be nerfed cause you should choose between helping a mate and shooting tank, not clearing the whole map from any distance.

Quote
3-Allow hunters to get m2'd while on the ground, no m2s on hunters while in the air, and add wallkicks back to hunters.
Hunter can jump anyway, m2 on hunter is unneeded imho
Wallkick is arguable a lot, it's not only a problem of the uzi, it's an easy hunter+spit on shotgun as well in closed areas. Leading to the gangbang (''i land hunter, you spit, then rest attack for chaos/more damage on that pleb''). Wallkick adds some sort of more baiting + paranoia but idk, i don't like it that much. Always felt better hunters with sick sync were played in configs without wallkick.

Quote
6-Give tank back promod rage value (I'm not 100% about this but I feel as though the tank is acemod losses rage too quickly)
     6a- allow tanks to play rock tank, and not just a YOLO commit tank feeling
If the smg spread/dmg at longer distance gets nerfed tank will get a legit help in that. Anyway long tanks are boring, one of the main changes of Acemod (props to Visor) was forcing the tank to commit fast.
I mean, there's two controls to make it possible to commit without easy AI for survivors, not to give the tank the possibility to play forever... tank is a steroided guy that wanna kick your ass, not a scared nerd (<-- ok it's a debatable argument).

Quote
12-limit gun ammo, instead of making this game really spam oriented, have people go into locations to get ammo. (creates more "choke" points
This is a cool idea, i totally forgot that on promod ammo management was pretty important. I forgot cause lately i just play the whole map with m1 pressed lelele

11. Im fine with a gun limit, 3-1. 2-2. It adds a different type of stratagem to the game, that I personally like.
Forcing 2-2 would be insanely cool in terms of new positioning strats. It's the less OP choice anyway, cause even in Acemod v4 people will get a lot of shotgun in small areas, and even before on promod people would go often 3 uzi in open areas.

DISCLAIMER
By saying my opinion about some little fixes in Acemod i don't mean this:
I'm not saying acemod is bad, just not as good as promod.

thx dear readers
Title: Re: cfg
Post by: hib on December 20, 2016, 03:54:19 pm
The reason why i want BLEEDING rate to be a bit higher (I'm not saying it should be rediculously high, I'd just like it to be a factor, like right now it's like a 10 count = 1 hp bleed out, would like this to be 7 or 8).

Also, this makes it so teams that are holding out and baiting are penalized with hp loss. (I don't really like the baiting timer, so bleed out would be the alternative). If we are to keep the possibility of Hold-outs like how Visor implemented to Acemod, then we can create a variable that stops bleedout temporarily or have the the bleedout rate slower. Same thing can be implemented for tank.

@Sanchez, long tanks can be boring of course, but it's the survivors job to LOS the tank. This is why, for open areas, you can add props not only to give infected the ability to spawn closer to survivors but also survivors can use it to LOS. It's beneficial to both sides.