Author Topic: cfg  (Read 25293 times)

NF

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Re: cfg
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2016, 05:04:06 pm »
Slowdown mechanics just aren't fun to experience regardless if it is "balanced".

See also: Mei in Overwatch, Natascha in TF2, etc.

Simon

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Re: cfg
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2016, 05:41:51 pm »
Hi, I just got off the toilet which is my place where I do my thinking for these kind of threads.

Speaking as an international player that mainly plays with red ping most of the time and seeing as how international this game is and is surprisingly a game that is still playable with high ping,  acemod is definitely more balanced for high ping players.

Promod enables the low ping players to just grab a shotgun, hold w and m2 everything in sight as they go on their merry way.

With acemod it evens out because you can't m2 hunters and the uzis are actually good which means that even with high ping you can actually kill stuff as opposed to using a shotgun which 80% of the time doesn't do much with red ping.

Coming to rocks is another thing that is in favor of low ping players, in promod a lot of the tanks you will have to play a rock tank which is significantly harder with high ping as everyone knows, it's much harder to curve and you can't even change the placement of the rock at the last second. In acemod you can simply roll in as theirs no slowdown and we have long arms so you can still do decent damage.

Now slowdown is the most retarded thing I've heard of compared to acemod and I fail to understand why anyone would want it back.

First of all, most people know that even a single person shooting at the tank when he goes for a punch will slow him down enough for you to juke or make him whiff and get away.

Most commits, the tank will get rekt by 3 uzis and massive slowdown and by the time he has moved 2cm from his original position, the tank realizes hes fucked and this is the point he goes for his last ditch jump rock whilst still getting railed by the uzis. If he lands it, he tells his buddies in mumble that he landed his 1 jump rock and that it was a good tank.

As Danne said, it's hard to believe that people think acemod tanks are slower than promod tanks in an actual game. While the promod tank does move at the same speed as the survivors base speed yes, the slowdown is so bad that he barely moves at all while the survivors can still run away.

Then the argument comes that SI come in to distract and survivors have to reload, right but were forgetting that when the tank is not getting shot at he does not get a magical adrenaline speed boost to instantly catch up the the survivors, he simply starts running at the same speed as the survivors to try and cover the massive gap that has been created while survivors are still running away at the same speed before getting shot at again.

Acemod the tank simply moves slightly slower than the survivors at all times which I believe is 10 units slower (220 vs 210) which means the gap between survivors and tank is much smaller compared to promod and he does not feel the effects of slowdown at all which even makes sense as the tank is bigger and heavier so he moves slightly slower but he doesn't feel the effect of bullets (especially from 1 person). This generally means in acemod tanks are a lot harder for survivors.

Also, the only reason uzis are limited in promod is because of the ridiculous slowdown which is not the case in acemod.

I agree that acemod is not perfect and I don't like some of the changes but it is a superior config to promod and a step in the right direction in general.

Another thing to note that from a competitive standpoint, besides changes that affect low ping vs high ping, both teams take turns at playing the exact same scenarios with the same conditions so regardless of the config, the better and smarter team will always win anyway.

Left 4 Dead is not like dota where there are new heroes and items etc being introduced that need to to be constantly re-balanced and adjusted. A lot of the changes made to configs in l4d were just because they could make changes even if they weren't needed. This game should of had an balanced config settled on long ago but here we are still trying to think of new ways to change it. This is a problem I see with a lot of community made games and content.

Finally I pray that L4D3 will have a decent competitive versus mode built in omitting retarded changes that doesn't need tweaking and everyone can stick to universally.

I would end by borrowing a similar quote from another game: "I fear the day when there are 736 configs and 4 players".

Thx 4 read my toilet thoughts.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 06:06:13 pm by Simon »

NF

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Re: cfg
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2016, 05:51:00 pm »
I don't know why people are even bringing up Promod at all.

It is an outdated, obsolete and abandoned config.

Do people still argue about the benefits of Metafogl and Jayfogl?

And just btw, there were plans to remove slowdown from Promod before it was abandoned. The Tanks in both configs would've been the same.

sinclair

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Re: cfg
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2016, 06:04:58 pm »
Another thing to note that from a competitive standpoint, besides changes that affect low ping vs high ping, both teams take turns at playing the exact same scenarios with the same conditions so regardless of the config, the better and smarter team will always win anyway.

thanks for posting, i respect most of your opinion but right here, this is perhaps the worst argument one could make. ignoring this argument is why t2 was removed. just because both sides get it doesnt negate how egregious things can be. and what we have here are OP survivors. games in scores are always going to be artificially closer if thats the case. make survivor harder and there will be a more well deserved spread in score. in my opinion of course.

im sure a lot of what i said was subjective but il return again to the late parish 2 tank. i always considered parish the tankplay map, hardrain being so open essentially the hr map (rip) and dark carnival a survivor sided map. thats really no longer the case. most of the parish tanks are castrated with this, specifically the late one where survivors can get to the tower and force the tank to break sight. shouldnt it be the other way around?

sinclair

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Re: cfg
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2016, 06:08:58 pm »
I don't know why people are even bringing up Promod at all.

It is an outdated, obsolete and abandoned config.

 

isnt acemod as well? obviously the first two things you said are subjective but in terms of objective comparison, promod and acemod are both abandoned.

why is it so hard to understand a discussion that weighs the pros and cons of each.

NF

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Re: cfg
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2016, 06:35:14 pm »
isnt acemod as well? obviously the first two things you said are subjective but in terms of objective comparison, promod and acemod are both abandoned.

why is it so hard to understand a discussion that weighs the pros and cons of each.

Fair enough, I wasn't aware anyone played Promod still.

Maybe a middle ground config could be made that has benefits of both configs.

sinclair

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Re: cfg
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2016, 06:42:31 pm »
Fair enough, I wasn't aware anyone played Promod still.

Maybe a middle ground config could be made that has benefits of both configs.
thats what ive been saying. while there are acemod diehard fans like daniel, like i said before most ppl play acemod if only based on habit. 

there are definitely some benefits of each. but was it really necessary to make these super uzi's with faster reload time, less spread and no limit? apart from not being able to m2 hunters theres no reason to take shotgun really anymore. teams can 4 uzi crown witches very easy. if the witch is dead forget it. by this configs strategy, there is no incentive not to go 4 uzi.

Bravo

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Re: cfg
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2016, 08:21:33 pm »
Hi, I just got off the toilet which is my place where I do my thinking for these kind of threads.

Speaking as an international player that mainly plays with red ping most of the time and seeing as how international this game is and is surprisingly a game that is still playable with high ping,  acemod is definitely more balanced for high ping players.

A game is not balanced around the idea of what would happen if someone with high ping comes to play

Promod enables the low ping players to just grab a shotgun, hold w and m2 everything in sight as they go on their merry way.

What makes this not possible in Acemod? the hunter you cant m2? come on....

With acemod it evens out because you can't m2 hunters and the uzis are actually good which means that even with high ping you can actually kill stuff as opposed to using a shotgun which 80% of the time doesn't do much with red ping.

Yeah, a more powerful gun kills things much faster with higher ping, so what?

Coming to rocks is another thing that is in favor of low ping players, in promod a lot of the tanks you will have to play a rock tank which is significantly harder with high ping as everyone knows, it's much harder to curve and you can't even change the placement of the rock at the last second. In acemod you can simply roll in as theirs no slowdown and we have long arms so you can still do decent damage.

Again, obviously higher ping will be difficult in almost any game.  Whats your point, the fact that you can use your high ping with no slowdown as advantage?  ???

Now slowdown is the most retarded thing I've heard of compared to acemod and I fail to understand why anyone would want it back.

One reason could be in the hands of a competent team slowdown would become an obstacle the si would have to acknowledged and instead of randomly throwing themselves at whoever, they could maybe use strategy/team play to go for certain individuals.  Basically adding a skill ceiling.

First of all, most people know that even a single person shooting at the tank when he goes for a punch will slow him down enough for you to juke or make him whiff and get away.

If you're juking a tank that's corning for you and he misses his timing because you're slowing him down you're not feeling the effects of the config, its the game play of the tank.  Honestly when I recall playing promod tanks missing corners and fucking their timings up are the same tanks who still do it without slowdown so that is a testament to the player.

Most commits, the tank will get rekt by 3 uzis and massive slowdown and by the time he has moved 2cm from his original position, the tank realizes hes fucked and this is the point he goes for his last ditch jump rock whilst still getting railed by the uzis. If he lands it, he tells his buddies in mumble that he landed his 1 jump rock and that it was a good tank.

What....??

As Danne said, it's hard to believe that people think acemod tanks are slower than promod tanks in an actual game. While the promod tank does move at the same speed as the survivors base speed yes, the slowdown is so bad that he barely moves at all while the survivors can still run away.

Oh man, there must have been no damage or wipes in the past then

Then the argument comes that SI come in to distract and survivors have to reload, right but were forgetting that when the tank is not getting shot at he does not get a magical adrenaline speed boost to instantly catch up the the survivors, he simply starts running at the same speed as the survivors to try and cover the massive gap that has been created while survivors are still running away at the same speed before getting shot at again.

Bro, survivors arent playing in a fucking tunnel holding S, the time that was used when committing was him picking a target and going for a corner usually, when SI come in he isnt still 10 fucking miles away.

Acemod the tank simply moves slightly slower than the survivors at all times which I believe is 10 units slower (220 vs 210) which means the gap between survivors and tank is much smaller compared to promod and he does not feel the effects of slowdown at all which even makes sense as the tank is bigger and heavier so he moves slightly slower but he doesn't feel the effect of bullets (especially from 1 person). This generally means in acemod tanks are a lot harder for survivors.

Please dont bring logic into this, he is bigger so he has to move slower? ok, hes getting shot so he has to move slower as well  ;)

Also, the only reason uzis are limited in promod is because of the ridiculous slowdown which is not the case in acemod.

Yeah, instead they're spread is reduced and you barely have a reload time. good points, good points.

I agree that acemod is not perfect and I don't like some of the changes but it is a superior config to promod and a step in the right direction in general.

What is the direction? different opinions are always implemented and stay/go because of the popularity they receive.  A while back the dark carnival finale had a forklift set in front of the stage for easier access, after fever got wiped and cried about it on the forums it was removed.  These are nothing but what certain individuals want implemented into the game and sometimes have no correlation to what would make a better COMPETITIVE game.

Another thing to note that from a competitive standpoint, besides changes that affect low ping vs high ping, both teams take turns at playing the exact same scenarios with the same conditions so regardless of the config, the better and smarter team will always win anyway.

You gotta be joking me.... lets roll a dice 5 times each, whoever gets the highest sum wins.  shits fair dawg.

Left 4 Dead is not like dota where there are new heroes and items etc being introduced that need to to be constantly re-balanced and adjusted. A lot of the changes made to configs in l4d were just because they could make changes even if they weren't needed. This game should of had an balanced config settled on long ago but here we are still trying to think of new ways to change it. This is a problem I see with a lot of community made games and content.

Whoa.... I agree

Finally I pray that L4D3 will have a decent competitive versus mode built in omitting retarded changes that doesn't need tweaking and everyone can stick to universally.

I would end by borrowing a similar quote from another game: "I fear the day when there are 736 configs and 4 players".

Thx 4 read my toilet thoughts.

None of this means I prefer promod over Acemod but if you're going to make arguments just dont fail to see the other side as well.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 08:27:45 pm by Bravo »

3yebex

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Re: cfg
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2016, 08:56:18 pm »
i just want my jump rocks and being able to rock tank without worrying about 4 suzi's with no spread banging me.


(most tanks now are fucking boring too, especially parish 2)
Instead of reverting the Uzi back to it's useless vanilla form and being completely overshadowed by the shotgun which can one shot 5 of the 6 SI now in Acemod (Skeet Jockeys, why?), we should look into changing dropoff damage. Currently both the Uzi and the Shotgun do ridiculously decent damage at even medium range. Even at long range the Shotgun is still dealing around 50 - 70 damage per shot, which while that doesn't' sound like such a problem for the Tank it definitely is a problem for the SI which have lower health pools. If you reduce the drop off damage of both the shotgun and the uzi dramatically, we can still keep the current weapon spreads of both weapons.

Furthermore, since we've increased the accuracy of both weapons in the game right now I think it's save to say you should get rid of the crouching accuracy multiplier. I barely, if at all, applies to the shotgun and it's no longer needed for the uzi since you can maintain proper accuracy without setting up a tent and lighting a campfire.

Bravo

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Re: cfg
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2016, 09:39:05 pm »
Instead of reverting the Uzi back to it's useless vanilla form and being completely overshadowed by the shotgun which can one shot 5 of the 6 SI now in Acemod (Skeet Jockeys, why?), we should look into changing dropoff damage. Currently both the Uzi and the Shotgun do ridiculously decent damage at even medium range. Even at long range the Shotgun is still dealing around 50 - 70 damage per shot, which while that doesn't' sound like such a problem for the Tank it definitely is a problem for the SI which have lower health pools. If you reduce the drop off damage of both the shotgun and the uzi dramatically, we can still keep the current weapon spreads of both weapons.

Furthermore, since we've increased the accuracy of both weapons in the game right now I think it's save to say you should get rid of the crouching accuracy multiplier. I barely, if at all, applies to the shotgun and it's no longer needed for the uzi since you can maintain proper accuracy without setting up a tent and lighting a campfire.

Man the deagle in csgo can one shot a fully bought up awper with 7k+ invested in the round, remove that shit.  The sample size of this community is way too low and the skill just isnt there.  The uzi was not useless, the kids holding it were.  Funny how for 2-3 years better players who dont play anymore never complained about guns being under powered, instead it was always HR is op, T2 is op.  I love the 5 out of 6 thing btw, boomers and spitters shouldnt be able to get one shot, you're right, and Im sure you get yourself into situations where you're rubbing dicks with the smoker to one shot him instead of taking a second to spray him down with an smg.  While we are on the subject of disregarding the strengths of an automatic weapon did you know shotguns can ONE SHOT WITCHES BRO? LEL, ADD THAT SHIT TOO!
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 09:47:48 pm by Bravo »

sinclair

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Re: cfg
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2016, 10:26:41 pm »
the only buff the uzi needed from vanilla was the ammo buff

Dusty

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Re: cfg
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2016, 10:44:37 pm »
Quote
and what we have here are OP survivors. games in scores are always going to be artificially closer if thats the case. make survivor harder and there will be a more well deserved spread in score. in my opinion of course.

This doesn't make sense, why would making survivor harder effect spreads in scores? We have a system that works based on healthbonus/damage bonus and is only in effect when survivors make saferoom. Do you or noone remember the statistics we had of how much people wiped on promod? It was ridiculously high.

Quote
thats what ive been saying. while there are acemod diehard fans like daniel, like i said before most ppl play acemod if only based on habit. 

You tell people not to make blanket statements yet make blanket statements about why people choose to play the config, If people didn't want to play acemod they could not play the pug or mix, they could call a vote for a different config, or not play l4d2. But If Im not wrong, the pug scene seems to be more alive than I can remember in a long time. I find it more fun and Im sure others would agree.

Quote
Yeah, obviously... both configs have that. But only promod has the additional mechanism of reward/punishment for strong/weak play: clearing your SI fast means you get more slowdown on the tank. Clearing SI slowly (or being hypnotized by the pouncing hunter when you should be shooting the tank) means your teammate has to juke a fast tank.

I mean, Isn't shooting the tank and getting damage, or clearing you teammates so they can shoot tank/not take damage reward enough? if your S.I. distract that takes damage away from what your tank would have taken, is that not punishment for weak/strong play?

Quote
Two things:

1. Slowdown from only 1 survivor shooting the tank usually isn't enough to make it as slow as the acemod tank
2. You have to reload, so while you're reloading the tank will catch you and start punching you

1.I'm positive that slowdown from one uzi makes you slower than an acemod tank, and it's was only exacerbated with multiple.
2. Unless they were retarded or had nowhere to go, someone wasnt going to get caught between reloads when kiting a tank, youd just get in medium range, dump a clip with slowdown, then turn and reload and continue til dead. At least now in acemod with decent awareness you can herd and corner people.

I can agree on some points that I think can be changed about acemod, but I think most things about promod are a step backwards.

Do agree with:
-The uzi is a bit overtuned at the moment, the game could use a 3/1 or even 2/2 weapon cap. (Might add some strategy on picking players who like uzi/shotgun moreso than just whoever is the best)

-Waiting out hordes or rushing for distance is a boring meta, horde should stop should you strategically decide to push an event and there is a tank spawn.

Do NOT agree with
-Muh jumprocks

-Muh slowdown

-Muh m2

-Muh melee power

-Muh more seemingly random witch damage.

If you could list if what things of promod would be an improvement for the game, I'd love to see it.









Pariah

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Re: cfg
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2016, 10:54:40 pm »
It's pretty much what dusty said, the delusions about the tank speed completely baffle me. It's just not true and anyone who seems to think that the acemod tank is "castrated" because it can't make use of a highly abused mechanic that was very susceptible to scripting (Jumprock) is probably in need of medical attention.

Pariah

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Re: cfg
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2016, 10:58:58 pm »
the only buff the uzi needed from vanilla was the ammo buff

This is why I can't quite tell if you're joking or not, be serious now my friend. Every config dev was able to agree with uzi did need to be buffed, Both promod and acemod improved the uzi.

sinclair

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Re: cfg
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2016, 11:03:50 pm »
This is why I can't quite tell if you're joking or not, be serious now my friend. Every config dev was able to agree with uzi did need to be buffed, Both promod and acemod improved the uzi.
i'll be serious by first stating i'm not your 'friend.' you added me just to block me you scallywag.
i dont know much what promod did to it so il amend and just say these changes to it from acemod (faster reload, no limit, less spread, less spread while MOVING) were beyond unnecessary. it was always adventageous to run SMG for l4d2 because of wide open maps and si spawning far away and coming at you or picking spawns. l4d1 was the exact opposite, uzi only for tanks but even then most ppl kept shotguns because it was only hunters. besides the witch, why would anyone go shotgun in this config??

you guys seem to be ignoring this. does ANYONE think that the late parish 2 tank is okay? in maps where the holdout also has tank spawns they should just be reverted to what they were. in fact i can only think of dk3 and parish 2. block dk3 coaster tank like promod already had. people still killed parish 2 tank even with horde. problem solved.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 11:06:06 pm by sinclair »

 

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