Also hordes needs to spawn during tanks tbh, you can cheese so much tanks/events

For example: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/144227088?t=01h05m07s

- Maybe bile-bomb? I actually liked bilebomb as a throwable because it had some pros and cons.

I know people complained about the shotgun being OP when you first launched it but i thought it was okay. The suzi is way more OP in acemod for the sole reason it has the additional benefit of damage at high range on the tank, something a shotgun will never have.

now it just seems like its not strong enough. in a config with only one set of pills, no melee weapons and hordes / boomers being so strong, i think the shotgun buff was warranted.

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other thoughts, um i dont think having a late tank on dt4 is a good idea with that infinite horde.
I just agree with the no holdout for horde like l4d1, just think this particular tank spawn should be blocked.

charger scratches and multi's should probably do 8 dmg  or at least 7. multi's probably 10 because you really should eat a big penalty for getting multi'd

Charger punches to 8 dmg (i see why you would put less damage, so people don't pull and punch a target due to limited amount of pills but if teams are together, this shouldn't be an issue

- The slowdown in apex is 28%? Anyone know the number on vanilla/promod slowdown? Maybe I've been gone from slowdown so long I don't remember how atrocious it was, but could maybe be tuned down?

- Uzi is still extremely powerful, with tank damage buff and slowdown, the tank feels more helpless than ever IMO. I think either small shotgun buff, or small uzi nerf still would be nice to equal them out.

i agree completely, but i think these guns fit the config. the roto shotgun. man all i can say is if this was the game that was put out in 2009 then a LOT of the l4d1 players would have stuck around. i truly think spitter sucks. u get 2-2's maybe half the time and bad setups for bad locations all the time as well (boomer spitter jockey smoker anyone?).

reflux was good but man i really like apex better. i say give it a chance, playing with the roto shotgun is a lot of fun. i think the lack of pills, strength of the boomer horde and lack of melee's balance it out and force you to clear your teammates more than you would say in acemod.

Keep silent jockeys, make 3 jockeys an option instead of 3 hunters, seriously hunters are so loud how can you ever except to land on anyone with +$5 headphones??? Jockeys add the element of surprise that makes survivor play so exciting.