Author Topic: Information on Dark Carnival's Development from Valve  (Read 719 times)

NF

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Information on Dark Carnival's Development from Valve
« on: September 21, 2017, 05:03:49 pm »
I'm currently working on a Dark Carnival remake campaign, and as I was going through the files, I noticed a lot of beta models and voice lines left in the game. I speculated on what they were for for a while, but eventually decided to just get in contact with Valve themselves to find out what they were for so I could possibly restore them for my campaign. To my surprise they responded to me with huge detailed summaries! I got their permission to post this information, so I'll sum it up here (anonymized).

Q: Was Dark Carnival inspired by any real life locations?

Valve Dev 1:
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There were really two of us who worked on the fairgrounds portion of the campaign. I designed from the entrance up until the roller coaster and <Valve Dev 2> designed from the roller coaster until the end. <Valve Dev 3> also took over the map with the Tunnel of Love to the end of the roller coaster when we split the maps. So, I can only speak of my own inspiration for the part up until the roller coaster, but I referenced the Evergreen State Fairgrounds in Monroe, WA:
https://www.evergreenfair.org/129/The-Fairgrounds
This is just a short drive from Valve and an artist and myself went there when it was not open as a fairgrounds to take reference photos. This was mainly for the kinds of buildings and structures they have at the fairgrounds but not so much the rides. I also referenced Kings Island in Ohio (where I grew up) for a lot of the rides and organization of the carnival games but it was a very loose reference:
https://d3knbu6191stae.cloudfront.net/binaries/content/assets/ki-en-us/general-information/explore/directions/2017-kings-island-park-map.pdf
Valve Dev 2:
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The rollercoaster was inspired by Colossus at Six Flags Magic Mountain. The stage was inspired by Puyallup Fairgrounds, WA.
https://i.imgur.com/ZtrIZIp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/G5a8YXD.jpg


Q: In the files I found models for a monorail (different from the one in the game) and voice lines where Coach and Nick talk about jumping on it. What was the original plan for this?


Valve Dev 1
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The "monorail" wasn't really a monorail but more like the People Mover in Disneyworld. I think Monorail would have been too permanent a structure so you can see an elevated ride in kiddieland that was more what we had in mind. I think the original thought was you would go up and run along that track to jump over a fence, but I changed it to the rooftops and down the slide because we were going to have you on a track of the roller coaster later.
Valve Dev 2:
Quote
I wanted to do a walk along a monorail track after the rooftop jumps but the map was getting too big by that point. [note by me: this dev designed map 4, not map 2, so it's possible there was supposed to be a monorail there too. The voice files for the monorail are also labeled c2m4, supporting this theory]


Q: Similarly, I read some more about how the finale was to be set on a train, akin to a more county fair type setting. I also found some voice lines where Nick is arguing with a "hippie". Do you remember anything about this?


Valve Dev 1:
 
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The original finale was supposed to be a train (you can see you arrive in a train boxcar at the beginning of Swamp Fever) but I think we felt it didn't feel like it really tied into the carnival type setting and <Valve Dev 2> wanted to do the concert. If I remember correctly, there was supposed to be a guy in the concert area who was going to help you with the stage lights and sound. He was going to be up the audience area at the back and you'd have to ask him to be your tech crew. It was later changed to turn it on yourselves. I think this was the "hippie" in the script.
Valve Dev 2:
   
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The stage finale originally had you move about the stadium to switch banks in the bleachers but we cut it back to just defending the stage. I wanted to keep the players moving rather than sticking to the stage. I eventually pulled this off by placing items around the arena. This might have been when the tech guy was written in but I’m not sure. The train departure was cut in favor the of the helicopter rescue from the stadium. As far as I can remember, the train rescue was going to involve a train showing up behind a fence and the team jumping on when it arrived. It was tougher spatially to pull this off from the stage because we wanted to keep the experience more contained. Much easier to make a chopper fly in over the walls that kept you inside the stadium.


Q: This is a bit of speculation on my part... but were all the campaigns in the game originally slated to be 4 maps instead of 5? It's known that Parish 1 and 2 were originally merged, and I've noticed some circumstantial evidence Hard Rain was 4 maps...


Valve Dev 1:
 
Quote
   Typically we plot out each campaign base on what we want to include and try to keep it around the same length each time but as the development progresses and we test more and more we find that maps need to be split or maybe another mini finale is added to require a split. It's a bit organic. Hard Rain was quite different since the goal was to come back on the same path with different terrain. [note by me: Basically: if it was too hard, the maps were split]
There was a part after the roller coaster that <Valve Dev 2> built before the end of that level but we found people almost dead right after the roller coaster so we had to cut it so the exit was right there. I think it was just more track of carnival tents and fairground though - not another ride or attraction. [note by me: I think this implies the original end saferoom for the coaster map was the little room in the back of the bumper car building]


Q: Did Valve have any plans to do anything more with the Midnight Riders?


Valve Dev 1:
Quote
    We had a little bit of the Midnight Riders in the DLC where you see a bus driving down the street and it's their tour van. We had planned that they escaped the infection and maybe were going to use them in a DLC at some point where you play as them. This never came to fruition however.

There you have it! Thanks again to Valve for such an in-depth response! Going to try to incorporate these elements into my new map if I can.

PeRgo!

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Re: Information on Dark Carnival's Development from Valve
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2017, 05:57:42 pm »
Did the hippie have any lines?
Can i play the hippie?
The story of a south american hippie, scouting the zombie infested US in search of a cure and a green card.

NF

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Re: Information on Dark Carnival's Development from Valve
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2017, 06:36:43 pm »
Did the hippie have any lines?
Can i play the hippie?
The story of a south american hippie, scouting the zombie infested US in search of a cure and a green card.

There's one single file left in which I believe is the hippie, in the folder -- left 4 dead 2\left4dead2\sound\npc\pilot. Never heard this voice used anywhere else.

Map 1

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Re: Information on Dark Carnival's Development from Valve
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2017, 02:12:49 pm »
Wouldn't it be something if they actually provided Midnight Rider player models and voiceover lines and you could cook up a community made DLC out of the new Beta Dark Carnival? It would be a lot more hybrid than Cold Stream turned out to be. Sort of non canon 'what if' DLC.

Take what you can get though. Nice little interview/tidbits of information.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 02:15:02 pm by Map 1 »

PeRgo!

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Re: Information on Dark Carnival's Development from Valve
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2017, 11:48:34 pm »
Last time i checked you can download some fan made models from the workshop, don't know how well made they are but there's that at least

NF

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Re: Information on Dark Carnival's Development from Valve
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2017, 12:25:44 am »
Last time i checked you can download some fan made models from the workshop, don't know how well made they are but there's that at least

I've actually been looking for models of the midnight riders, I was even willing to pay some modders to make them for me. Can you link me to these?

PeRgo!

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Re: Information on Dark Carnival's Development from Valve
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2017, 10:36:08 pm »
Sorry nf can't find them, i'll keep looking, I'm certain those models exist somewhere.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 10:57:31 pm by PeRgo! »

 

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