Author Topic: Announcing CCR²T  (Read 30785 times)

SaBle

  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Moscow taught me everything.
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing CCR²T
« Reply #75 on: May 27, 2015, 12:06:11 am »
I love this DEAD GAMES community, how people care so much about this DEAD GAME is fascinating and highly entertaining.


balk0n: fuck off, pub

Sir

  • *
  • Posts: 917
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing CCR²T
« Reply #76 on: May 27, 2015, 12:16:12 am »
Well this is almost entirely consisted of bullshit, It's true that Non Stop won't play on NY, but that's purely due to their dislike of Americans in general and not fear of the ping. As for the Euros having better ping that Americans on NY, Quite frankly that just isn't reallly possible let alone probable. You of all people should know that. Just like xbye you're guilty of having a very closed minded approach to viewing a situation and are seeing everyone in the same light. Don't contribute to a discussion if you're not capable of offering an unbias opinion.


As said before, that is actually very likely.
The routing in some places is horrible (LA and Dallas (which isn't even West Coast), for example) and players from those regions are likely to get a pretty high ping to NY and sometimes even Chicago)

I don't have a close minded approach, it's just what I'm seeing, if anything you're basing your opinion on your friends. ;D
But you're right, my ping is too high to NY to even consider playing.
I doubt anyone in the EU has worse routing than Valde.. xD
Group Owner of :| SirPlease
Config Dev :| Zonemod 1.8

hib

  • *****
  • Posts: 713
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing CCR²T
« Reply #77 on: May 27, 2015, 02:03:23 am »
Jacob, Nobody wants to play with only red ping when they can play with comfortable green. I had conversation with some of NonStop's players and some other teams - also I try to gather my own tim and already tried USA cup, so believe me - that is like exact reason why european/russian teams are not interested.

Single example of opposite can be Scavenge cup which have only 4 teams now but probably it's because Scavenge is boring mode without tanks, horde and chokepoints.
Not sure what you meant by that. Elaborate please. I don't see any sense here since NA teams will have perfect playable ping on CCRT.
Because its not mine tournament and if it was mine (and I would not wanted to make it fastcup) you can be sure I would do it.

Kekkeri, I suggested this idea few weeks ago and noone gave enough fucks I guess.

Honestly, you sound like a pussy. When there was "European Based" Tournaments my team would sign up with having no chances of playing in a home/away format even if we got to the semis/finals. I myself, am from the west region along side with nnah and bAD. We all play with 190-220 ms in tournaments. High ping isn't too bad unless the server is 100 tick. 100 tick servers + lag makes it nearly impossible to do curve rocking.

I've talked to Dragon and we have come to a consensus that playing home and away games is somewhat unfair when doing international tournaments. When we play "home" servers at New York, and we have 2 people from West (California/Texas), we get around 110 ms to that server, while our east coast members get 34-40 ms. Then, when it comes to play on EU home server, EU people have 30 ping, while our team has 2 yellows (~124-130) and 2 red pings (~180-194).

Sure, having green ping is optimal, but you need to learn how to adapt to higher ping.

hib

  • *****
  • Posts: 713
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing CCR²T
« Reply #78 on: May 27, 2015, 02:26:01 am »
Didn't you select a Dallas server during a pug with 3 Europeans just today? Well, obvious lies and bullshit aside, The reason alot of the Europeans are unwilling to play Americans on an American server is for the simple fact that the sense of entitlement is quite annoying. In nearly every cup Euros are forced to play with a disadvantage, Perhaps they just want to give the Americans a taste of their own medicine?

Besides this is a huge generalisation, When my team was active in Pcws the only team that would ever play on Eu was Grizz and Co. Bare in mind this server choice was not even my request, Grizz insisted in order to practice with his team on "high" ping, I'm sure he will verify this. Every other American team would laugh at the suggestion of playing on Eu, or even NY sometimes. So before you generalise and tar everyone with the same brush perhaps you need to broaden your mind a little, I'm assuming it's just lack of experience rather than ignorance that is causing you to type this as you never came across as being an idiot.

I believe I mentioned this before, However just incase you forgot; You're most likely seeking these PCWs on an EU hub which is obviously the reason these players make the assumption you're okay with playing on an EU server. Perhaps in order to avoid confusion and incorrect assumptions about European players as a whole you should post PCW New Jersey server. Your mistake isn't their fault.


Before Grizz was even a good player, I actually started playing EU with nnah, Lust and release. Few people that literally gave no fucks about ping. (Lust and release were orange pings, while me and nnah had red pings).
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=90675560  (note: nnah and release ping)

If you want a history run down, EU actually never attended tournaments in NA, until Sir's team started PCW on it, along side Team France (Razzor, Gannon, and etc) and even NikeOn's team.

Shit like this disgusts me. Teams that choose servers to get an edge over another is dishonorable. Example: Vox vs New Face. cooljerk and his team chose a server in Chicago or NY, knowing that my teammates were from Asia to give them higher ping. We asked for a server change and tried to contact an admin to enforce it but they were stubborn to stay on it. We requested a west server, Dallas or Cali, but they wanted the ping advantage and said that they shouldn't cater to non-US teams.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=80768086 
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=80768031

At the time, our team NF was around equal skill level to my tableflip team even with their high ping difference.

hib

  • *****
  • Posts: 713
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing CCR²T
« Reply #79 on: May 27, 2015, 02:32:13 am »
As for the Euros having better ping that Americans on NY, Quite frankly that just isn't reallly possible let alone probable.


If you play vs a team who consists of mainly west players, then you're statement is proven false.
Ex: me, nnah, bAD, TooL, Bravo, fig, acer (any one of those guys put on the same team will have shittier pings compared to EU team who doesn't come from Russia or beyond towards the east)

Also, in addition higher tick server adds +10 ping to foreign players. +10 ping for green people won't make a difference but for people who are in the border or orange-red or just simply red, it makes it harder to do things such as get m2s or curve rocks with tank. In my experience, when playing in Asia with the same ping as I do in EU, I seem to have a better chance over there with 60 tick than i do with 100 tick servers.

As said before, that is actually very likely.
The routing in some places is horrible (LA and Dallas (which isn't even West Coast), for example) and players from those regions are likely to get a pretty high ping to NY and sometimes even Chicago)

I don't have a close minded approach, it's just what I'm seeing, if anything you're basing your opinion on your friends. ;D
But you're right, my ping is too high to NY to even consider playing.
I doubt anyone in the EU has worse routing than Valde.. xD


Valde <3 - that one day when he said "FUCK playing US server" xD
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=225992939 
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 02:41:12 am by hib »

Visor

  • *
  • Posts: 1149
    • View Profile
    • Steam Profile
Re: Announcing CCR²T
« Reply #80 on: May 27, 2015, 04:09:48 am »
Not gonna get involved in this diarrhea talk, just gonna remark 2 things.

hib, learn to connect your award-winning thoughts and ideas in one fucking monolit post. ctrl+a, ctrl+x, ctrl+v.

Second, to you as well. You're making yourself look like an illiterate again, when you imply that tick 100 is worse than tick 60. But I'm done commenting on this, feel free to continue.

Just a few links for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans
$10 says you aren't anywhere near a controlling position of the L4D3 scene in any continent when it happens.

Thing is he does what he wants, cause his able to and we are letting him do that. He abuses hes place and power in this community and people like me get banned for no reason. Only thing visor wants is more and more control so he can do what ever he wants.

Dragon

  • *
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing CCR²T
« Reply #81 on: May 27, 2015, 05:42:48 am »
I've talked to Dragon and we have come to a consensus that playing home and away games is somewhat unfair when doing international tournaments. When we play "home" servers at New York, and we have 2 people from West (California/Texas), we get around 110 ms to that server, while our east coast members get 34-40 ms. Then, when it comes to play on EU home server, EU people have 30 ping, while our team has 2 yellows (~124-130) and 2 red pings (~180-194).

Yes, you and I talked about this once or twice but just to clarify, I never said flat-out that the entire system is "unfair", what I said to you was that because of the geographical disposition of every player concerned in an international contest, there is always going to be at least a few players who draw the short straw when it comes to ping discrepancies, which you've highlighted with your above example. When it comes to the international spectrum, it is the North American community that sees these ping discrepancies the most simply because of the wide expanse of the continent, with the Russian community a likely 2nd, depending on players connecting either from further east of Moscow, Siberia or former Soviet states in Central Asia like Kazakhstan.

When NV and Velocity played each other in CCT2 for example, they did a home/away system (using NA servers) that was pretty much even on pings except for when dec briefly featured for them. In this instance, home/away was indeed fair for both parties, it was just seemingly unfair for dec the moment he had to sub in for a round or 2. So in most cases, the system can be fair and for the odd few who are connecting from far away, it can seem unfair. But a lot of it depends on how many 'higher ping' players are in a team and how to compensate for it with the home/away system.

I also said to you that if there were systems conceived to the point where it can accommodate for the players with the odd high pings, then it might be a better option than doing home/away. If there was such a system where teams could play just one match on a neutral server with a system in place that does something to compensate for the ping discrepancies, then that might be the option that costs less time and hassle compared to home/away games and provides tournament hosts/admins with the benefit of fewer headaches. But whether or not that happens, until then, playing home/away/neutral is the only option tournament hosts have right now in the interest of making things more fair for both parties regardless of their current locations, if they so choose to exercise that option in the first place.

Also, in addition higher tick server adds +10 ping to foreign players. +10 ping for green people won't make a difference but for people who are in the border or orange-red or just simply red, it makes it harder to do things such as get m2s or curve rocks with tank. In my experience, when playing in Asia with the same ping as I do in EU, I seem to have a better chance over there with 60 tick than i do with 100 tick servers.

I don't know what figures you've been seeing to come to that conclusion, but when Hyper-V had 100 tick servers in North America, I always had lower ping than on 60 tick servers, and I even had this with my old machine which was such a budget-rig that it didn't even touch 60 fps let alone 100. I always consistently get 20-30 less latency than connecting to the same locations on 60 tick, even on NA servers despite technically being a "foreign player" myself in that circumstance. Dallas is a server where I get red ping on 60 tick without fail when pressing TAB, it goes yellow when on 100 tick, not to mention a huge boost in hit reg and far less input delay for a server location that's usually a horrid experience for players connecting from outside of North America due to the routing.

What fps does your machine run the game at? Because if it's below 100 fps, your update rate will be less and your image will appear less smooth, it might also impact your m2 in rare situations. I had the same issues with my previous pc even when playing on 60 tick.

dec

  • ***
  • Posts: 223
  • NV-DEC
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing CCR²T
« Reply #82 on: May 27, 2015, 07:27:36 am »
Not gonna get involved in this diarrhea talk, just gonna remark 2 things.

hib, learn to connect your award-winning thoughts and ideas in one fucking monolit post. ctrl+a, ctrl+x, ctrl+v.

Second, to you as well. You're making yourself look like an illiterate again, when you imply that tick 100 is worse than tick 60. But I'm done commenting on this, feel free to continue.

Just a few links for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans

LMFAO

Alright I can't believe I actually read through this entire thread.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 07:33:23 am by dec »

Pariah

  • ****
  • Posts: 301
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing CCR²T
« Reply #83 on: May 27, 2015, 10:36:05 am »
If you play vs a team who consists of mainly west players, then you're statement is proven false.
Ex: me, nnah, bAD, TooL, Bravo, fig, acer (any one of those guys put on the same team will have shittier pings compared to EU team who doesn't come from Russia or beyond towards the east)

Also, in addition higher tick server adds +10 ping to foreign players. +10 ping for green people won't make a difference but for people who are in the border or orange-red or just simply red, it makes it harder to do things such as get m2s or curve rocks with tank. In my experience, when playing in Asia with the same ping as I do in EU, I seem to have a better chance over there with 60 tick than i do with 100 tick servers.

Valde <3 - that one day when he said "FUCK playing US server" xD
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=225992939


Hib, You've literally just given photo evidence fo your theory about the west coast players having worse ping being false. I also gave a similar piece of evidence. Now it's time you stop being blind to something that's facefucking you.

As for your screenshots and story about Vox, This is the exact problem that I was confronted with in CCT3, I am with you on that one.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 11:02:17 am by Pariah »

Pariah

  • ****
  • Posts: 301
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing CCR²T
« Reply #84 on: May 27, 2015, 10:56:22 am »
As said before, that is actually very likely.
The routing in some places is horrible (LA and Dallas (which isn't even West Coast), for example) and players from those regions are likely to get a pretty high ping to NY and sometimes even Chicago)

I don't have a close minded approach, it's just what I'm seeing, if anything you're basing your opinion on your friends. ;D
But you're right, my ping is too high to NY to even consider playing.
I doubt anyone in the EU has worse routing than Valde.. xD


Americans will never be at a disadvantage when playing on an American server against Europeans. It does not matter if they live in a shack on the beach in Cali, It will not happen. The only possible way it will happen is if you take 4 American gypsys living in the desert of Utah and 4 Euros living in central London with 500/500 internet. Seems very likely indeed.

It isn't what you're seeing let's be honest, you're playing against mix team of EU players after finding the games on your own EU based hub and then crying when they want to play on an Eu server. I don't understand what makes you incapable of understanding that they aren't doing anything wrong. I do not post for scrims on H2k and expect a game on a frankfurt server.

I didn't say anything about your ping being too high to consider playing? What are you talking about?  :-\

Dusty

  • ****
  • Posts: 266
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing CCR²T
« Reply #85 on: May 27, 2015, 11:39:26 am »
Quote
Introduction

L4DNation is the largest forum dedicated to competitive L4D discussion. We try our best to make it a welcoming community for players, coders, config makers, casters, and spectators to come to talk about the game and community they love. However, posting on L4DNation is a privilege, not a right. We expect our users to be respectful of one another and their viewpoints.

Arguments and debates are to be expected, but at the end of the day we want L4DNation to be a safe place for people to come and discuss. The staff at L4DNation will not hesitate to ban or remove privileges when posts cross the line from heated discussion into personal attacks.

Should I post this?

If you're about to make a post that you think might be crossing the line, take a step back and re-read what you've written.


If your post insults, demeans, or mocks other people...
If your post responds to and extends stupid, pointless, or toxic conversation even if directed specifically at you...
If you aren't sure that your post does not fall outside of these bounds...

then DO NOT POST.

A good post can express your viewpoint without encroaching on the rights of others. If you're worried about your viewpoint opening you up to attacks from other users, feel free to seek the help of a moderator (ProdigySim, fig newtons, Visor) to try to address those concerns.


Quote
Just a few links for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans

estoopi

  • *
  • Posts: 710
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing CCR²T
« Reply #86 on: May 27, 2015, 11:51:31 am »
I hope this tournament works out though.  I enjoy watching Dawkins team scrim on the customs... o:


Instead of arguing, we should try to figure out a way to make the tournament work :x ....


Maybe home/away is a good idea....  or maybe doing the thing where the teams are split based on location and don't actually meet until finals :/

Pariah

  • ****
  • Posts: 301
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing CCR²T
« Reply #87 on: May 27, 2015, 11:58:22 am »
I hope this tournament works out though.  I enjoy watching Dawkins team scrim on the customs... o:


Instead of arguing, we should try to figure out a way to make the tournament work :x ....


Maybe home/away is a good idea....  or maybe doing the thing where the teams are split based on location and don't actually meet until finals :/

I'm not so sure that the whole location based scenario would work, especially if you might be catering to teams from Asia and Australia. I can't imagine we'd be seeing a large number from that area, but there's a chance that we'll get at least a couple. How would they be given a fair shake in this location based division?

I like the positivity though! I can see this tourney going really well, especially if the signups keep improving as they have in the past 2 days.  :)

Hoernchen

  • **
  • Posts: 96
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing CCR²T
« Reply #88 on: May 27, 2015, 12:25:49 pm »
It's a NA based tournament get over with it, there is no perfect solution for this ping problem except you make a big ass LAN.

NF

  • *
  • Posts: 1098
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing CCR²T
« Reply #89 on: May 27, 2015, 12:51:32 pm »
Not gonna get involved in this diarrhea talk, just gonna remark 2 things.

hib, learn to connect your award-winning thoughts and ideas in one fucking monolit post. ctrl+a, ctrl+x, ctrl+v.

Second, to you as well. You're making yourself look like an illiterate again, when you imply that tick 100 is worse than tick 60. But I'm done commenting on this, feel free to continue.

Just a few links for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans


Left4Dead Nation admin Visor setting a good example for others as usual.

 

A dedicated community website to competitive L4D and L4D2, ran by the community, for the community. L4DNation supports all continents of play and focuses on bringing together the community as a whole to a central hub of information.