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Community => News => Topic started by: Jacob on April 30, 2015, 03:42:59 pm

Title: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Jacob on April 30, 2015, 03:42:59 pm
Or in other words, the first Custom Campaign Reflux Reboot Tournament! If you're looking for an easier name to say, I suppose you can just call it CCRT. This is the first ever Reflux tourney! If you aren't familiar with what Reflux is, it is a clone of Pro Mod with the only differences being that there are no spitters, no melee weapons, and it is possible to get quad-caps. 'Why Reflux' you may be asking yourself, well because we wanted to. Onto the details!

Config: Reflux
Format: Swiss into Finals Bracket - Grand Finals will be Best of 3
Region: This is a North American based tournament. International teams are welcome to join, however we will not be using the international format until playoffs.

Map Pool: Open Road (http://www.gamemaps.com/details/2741) - Dead Before Dawn (http://www.gamemaps.com/details/2268) - Suicide Blitz 2 (http://www.gamemaps.com/details/2793) - Carried Off (http://www.gamemaps.com/details/2230) - Diescraper Redux (http://www.gamemaps.com/details/2413) - Detour Ahead (http://www.gamemaps.com/details/2445) *Disclaimer* Some of these maps need fixes. Dead Before Dawn is broken in it's current state. If you play them now and complain to us about them being broken, expect to be ignored.
Registration: You can sign up now here! (http://www.l4dnation.com/custom-campaign-tournaments/ccr2t-sign-ups/) Sign ups will be open from now until May 30th.
Start Date: Round 1 will begin on June 1st.
Prizes: Each member of the 1st place team will receive 25$ worth of steam games of their choice. The winning team will also win 100$ to be split between all the players.

Rules: Coming soon
Admins: Jacob (http://steamcommunity.com/id/jacob404) + Estoopi (http://) - All disputes must go through Jacob. Trying to go through Estoopi will get you nowhere other than off his friends list.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: fig newtons on April 30, 2015, 03:56:18 pm
Config: Reflux

(http://media.giphy.com/media/YbybIuZaB60so/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: sygnus on April 30, 2015, 04:30:05 pm
([url]http://media.giphy.com/media/YbybIuZaB60so/giphy.gif[/url])
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: supra on April 30, 2015, 04:33:21 pm

Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Dyl Dough on April 30, 2015, 04:33:47 pm
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Jacob on April 30, 2015, 05:27:53 pm
Updated with map pool since people keep asking.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Hoernchen on April 30, 2015, 06:23:37 pm
No melee weapons, no spitters and with quadcaps damn count me in! I hope EU teams are allowed.

Edit: Damn it's going to be North American only  :'(
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: yams on April 30, 2015, 06:26:08 pm
International teams are welcome to join, however we will not be using the international format until playoffs.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Hoernchen on April 30, 2015, 06:28:57 pm
Yeah but playing with 120 - 180ms until you reach the playoffs is kinda a turn off.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: High Cookie on April 30, 2015, 06:55:40 pm
Great map choices, pretty much all my favorites
just missing haunted forest.

Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: 3yebex on April 30, 2015, 07:39:57 pm
No melee-weapons and no spitters?

Sounds great... except we still have the Jockey. Please, please do something about the Jockey...! He needs Left4Speed... he's so slow getting anywhere.

I might actually try and join a team for this tournament.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Friday. on April 30, 2015, 07:42:03 pm
oh vey no insta melee clears!
http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9qr27Tg6J1rziwwco1_250.gif (http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9qr27Tg6J1rziwwco1_250.gif)
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Jacob on May 01, 2015, 06:07:06 pm
Update: Thanks to a very generous donation, the prize pool has been increased. The 1st place team will now also receive 100$ to be split amongst the players.

Note: I might change prize distribution in the near future so it's not all going to first. I'm trying to figure out the best way to do it, so gimme some time to think about it.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Pariah on May 10, 2015, 02:05:00 pm
Hopefully more teams will take interest in this, I playtested the config yesterday and I like it.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: supra on May 10, 2015, 06:00:30 pm
I concur. I believe this tournament should be publicized more though. Maybe post on US and EU groups.

Hopefully more teams will take interest in this, I playtested the config yesterday and I like it.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Artifacial on May 11, 2015, 02:44:21 am
Not speaking for all possible Asian/Aus teams, but the inclusion of home/away games only in the final stages is the only thing preventing me from signing up. The thought of having to sequentially play all of those games on 250 ping just to qualify for finals doesn't sound like much fun.

Either way, CCT tournaments are always fun to watch, so good luck to all entrants!
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: dec on May 11, 2015, 03:26:03 am
Not speaking for all possible Asian/Aus teams, but the inclusion of home/away games only in the final stages is the only thing preventing me from signing up. The thought of having to sequentially play all of those games on 250 ping just to qualify for finals doesn't sound like much fun.

Either way, CCT tournaments are always fun to watch, so good luck to all entrants!
+1
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: iamSun on May 11, 2015, 05:29:59 am
^^

Also many russian/EU teams would join with inclusion of home/away system. Considering that curent America seems to host only few teams I am not sure about this decision at all. By the way regardless of how much I love Swiss, group system can host America and EU/RU teams in separate groups preventing home/away issues up to the playoffs.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: NF on May 11, 2015, 07:26:26 am
Hmm, I wasn't planning on entering, but the fact that Suicide Blitz and Dead Before Dawn are in it might make me reconsider... such good campaigns, wish they got more exposure in normal tourneys.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: estoopi on May 11, 2015, 11:30:02 am
I believe the primary reason for not having Home/Away/International is the amount of stress that comes with it for the admins.   I personally am just not up to dealing with sorting out the teams' scheduling issues and then being told I'm racist and hate euros every week of the tournament, etc.  It sucks I have to say that, but it's happened every tournament I've ever admined.

It'd be interesting if EU (or any other community) ran an international tournament.  Why does the stress need to be on the US side every time (or so it feels). 

EQ2 was international and was successful.  The only downfall imo in that tournament was that not only was it home/away matches, but it was also promod/retro every round too.. so my team had to play 4 matches every round.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Pariah on May 11, 2015, 11:59:18 am
I believe the primary reason for not having Home/Away/International is the amount of stress that comes with it for the admins.   I personally am just not up to dealing with sorting out the teams' scheduling issues and then being told I'm racist and hate euros every week of the tournament, etc.  It sucks I have to say that, but it's happened every tournament I've ever admined.

It'd be interesting if EU (or any other community) ran an international tournament.  Why does the stress need to be on the US side every time (or so it feels). 

EQ2 was international and was successful.  The only downfall imo in that tournament was that not only was it home/away matches, but it was also promod/retro every round too.. so my team had to play 4 matches every round.


I think there's only as much stress as you let yourself be put under. If you're overly emotional or prone to being unable to make choices that are essentially extremely simple but seem more difficult when you over think them, then yeah it will be difficult to host an international tournament. I think most of the problems arise when simple logic isn't being incorporated into admin decisions. I'm not trying to insult you personally here Estoopi, I'm thankful that you take the time and effort to host tournaments for the community.

The Eu community has contributed a fair share of international tournaments, Examples being the EQ series hosted by dragon, All 3 operating the international format, CCT2 hosted by NikeOn ect & I'm sure there's others but I'm too lazy to think hard about it.

If you remain unbias and try to put yourself in the shoes of the players then the admin decisions really aren't anything to be too concerned about. Consider ping differences and determine whether the server choices are fair, Attempt to cut the ping disparity as much as possible, regardless of who the server choice will favour. Then the only other issue (aside from Dena trying to drown Jacob and yourself in his salt) would be times that the match can be played. Also very easily solved when applying some logic to the situation. Would your team like to play at 4am on a Sunday night? No? (http://puu.sh/gqsXX/cc88ba6179.png) Then don't demand that a European team plays at this time or else recieves a FFL.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Visor on May 11, 2015, 12:09:58 pm
It'd be interesting if EU (or any other community) ran an international tournament.  Why does the stress need to be on the US side every time

EQ2 was international and was successful.  The only downfall imo in that tournament was that not only was it home/away matches, but it was also promod/retro every round too.. so my team had to play 4 matches every round.

(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/288/625/69c.png)

http://ask.fm/DoctorDragon/answer/126398707499 (http://ask.fm/DoctorDragon/answer/126398707499)
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Jacob on May 11, 2015, 01:30:04 pm
The way I see it is that the large amount of NA based tourneys has grown the NA scene a lot over the past couple years. People may not notice it, but we have been seeing a lot more teams and players popping up recently. I honestly think that Europe should host tournaments that are EU only more often. It will help grow your local scene. Only once both scenes have a healthy amount of players will international formats truly work. CCT2 worked great because half the teams were from Europe and half were from North America. Since then the amount of Euro teams has dropped and the amount of North American teams has increased. Whenever we host international tourneys we only see about 5 international teams sign up, and it ends up not being worth the hassle.

We are usually able to field anywhere from 20-30 NA teams for the average tournament, if other regions are able to do that too then we could host a really big international tourney where the top 4 from each region make playoffs... Euros have the playerbase to do that easily, it's just that a majority of players in Europe are playing mixes. North America had the same issue a while ago, but we managed to recover from it through hosting tournaments like CCT that made the average player want to form a team and sign up. My advice to European players is to find out what you can do to motivate people to make teams. International tournaments are not the answer to that, as the average player isn't going to want to play on high ping.

TL;DR- In a perfect world international format is amazing, but before we can get to that perfect world each region needs to focus on local growth.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: estoopi on May 12, 2015, 10:18:37 am
We could do a US division and an EU division.

Both divisions would go through to the end without intersecting - including each having their own finals match.

Then we could have a single superfinals match where there is a home/away thing between the top teams from each division.

....  could simplify things.   If we did that, I think it would be nice if there were euro admins (visor? dragon? ;D).   It would essentially be two seperate tournaments, but they would follow the same structure, rules, map pool, etc. 

Just thinking..
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: ZerOxShadows on May 12, 2015, 02:04:22 pm
We could do a US division and an EU division.

Both divisions would go through to the end without intersecting - including each having their own finals match.

Then we could have a single superfinals match where there is a home/away thing between the top teams from each division.

....  could simplify things.   If we did that, I think it would be nice if there were euro admins (visor? dragon? ;D).   It would essentially be two seperate tournaments, but they would follow the same structure, rules, map pool, etc. 

Just thinking..

Good idea.

This would encourage more Euros to play in a tourney and create a situation where they can keep their 10 ping. So far, the teams are all high tier so creating divisions could encourage lower tier teams to participate too. Though I would like to see the US vs EU divisions begin to play each other in the elimination brackets just so we can see better match-ups instead of just one which would be the grand finale.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: iamSun on May 12, 2015, 02:37:16 pm
Jacob,
Quote
Whenever we host international tourneys we only see about 5 international teams sign up, and it ends up not being worth the hassle.
When NA hosted such tournament last time?...I can remember only CCT3 and EQ cups from recent history and pretty sure they had a lot of teams.

Quote
We are usually able to field anywhere from 20-30 NA teams for the average tournament, if other regions are able to do that too then we could host a really big international tourney where the top 4 from each region make playoffs...
Recent Fresh 2015 had like 15+ EU teams. Recent RBWT had pretty much same amount of NA teams. So we kinda can.

Quote
International tournaments are not the answer to that, as the average player isn't going to want to play on high ping.
Personally I would not drop RBWT if only it did not made me play all my games with 250+ ping and a lot of teams doesn't join your cups only because of ping. So they will increase number of registered teams for sure.

Ofcourse  home/away system will not attract pub or mix players who do not have team yet. But this system will attract many already established teams who play only inside their region. Also you can separate EU/RU and NA teams before playoffs to prevent many issues as I said earlier.

Home/Away has only one huge weakness - basically it makes both games rape and there is not so much of joy to play or spectate rape. But we all can't have nice nice comfortable ping yet...
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Dyl Dough on May 12, 2015, 06:01:01 pm
Hey so, is this config going to actually have quadcaps before the tournament starts? Cause right now the config is pretty boring imo. It's literally just a rage rush and the only real damage dealt to teams are at tank.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Jacob on May 12, 2015, 06:49:02 pm
I was gunna put out an update last night fixing quad caps but I'm waiting on some stripper fixes from NF. As soon as they are ready the update will come out.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: yams on May 12, 2015, 06:53:40 pm
As soon as they are ready
Soon™
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: sinclair on May 12, 2015, 08:36:29 pm
im sick and tired of yams making troll posts. every time he posts all he does is derail the thread or mock people for his own amusement. we are supposed to be the professional and competitive aspect of the community not the left 4 dead 2 internet bullies. if you have something to say to these people say it over private message, or better yet look them up, take a plane to their house, buy a rental car and knock on their door and say it to their face. In this thread Jacob is trying to better the community once again and is posting imperative information about the whereabouts and whenabouts of this particular event. I can see your green skin and troll bridge you hide under from here. admins do your work and clean this thread up. there is a reason there is a ban feature
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Dyl Dough on May 12, 2015, 09:32:01 pm
Shade is so funny bro. LIKE SO FUNNY BRO OMG
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: NF on May 12, 2015, 11:57:29 pm
I was gunna put out an update last night fixing quad caps but I'm waiting on some stripper fixes from NF. As soon as they are ready the update will come out.

Nigga please, I've had the update ready for a week, I've been waiting for you :P
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: yams on May 13, 2015, 12:08:28 am
Gamer please, I've had the update ready for a week, I've been waiting for you :P
The plot thickens...
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Jacob on May 13, 2015, 12:11:03 am
We've been waiting for each other technically :P It was a miscommunication, so yeah my bad.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Rook on May 13, 2015, 12:36:30 am
im sick and tired of yams making troll posts. every time he posts all he does is derail the thread or mock people for his own amusement. we are supposed to be the professional and competitive aspect of the community not the left 4 dead 2 internet bullies. if you have something to say to these people say it over private message, or better yet look them up, take a plane to their house, buy a rental car and knock on their door and say it to their face. In this thread Jacob is trying to better the community once again and is posting imperative information about the whereabouts and whenabouts of this particular event. I can see your green skin and troll bridge you hide under from here. admins do your work and clean this thread up. there is a reason there is a ban feature
You spent effort typing that out.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Friday. on May 13, 2015, 12:41:30 am
im sick and tired of yams making troll posts. every time he posts all he does is derail the thread or mock people for his own amusement. we are supposed to be the professional and competitive aspect of the community not the left 4 dead 2 internet bullies. if you have something to say to these people say it over private message, or better yet look them up, take a plane to their house, buy a rental car and knock on their door and say it to their face. In this thread Jacob is trying to better the community once again and is posting imperative information about the whereabouts and whenabouts of this particular event. I can see your green skin and troll bridge you hide under from here. admins do your work and clean this thread up. there is a reason there is a ban feature

Inb4 yams shade shitfight lmao
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: ZerOxShadows on May 18, 2015, 01:36:30 pm
What's the roster limit?
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: KiLLaToY on May 18, 2015, 01:45:50 pm
(http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2012/11/8/18/anigif_enhanced-buzz-31123-1352415867-5.gif)
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Jacob on May 18, 2015, 03:06:27 pm
6
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Visor on May 18, 2015, 03:10:37 pm
([url]http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2012/11/8/18/anigif_enhanced-buzz-31123-1352415867-5.gif[/url])

For once, not a tom cruise pic and I actually like it.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: KiLLaToY on May 18, 2015, 03:38:05 pm
For once, not a tom cruise pic and I actually like it.

Sometimes I gotta mix things up a bit.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: parky on May 18, 2015, 04:09:48 pm
6


(http://images.rapgenius.com/0f1eeaa1df2baede18d4231cbfb0f3d0.664x318x1.png)
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: ElusivΣ on May 18, 2015, 08:06:50 pm
Sometimes I gotta mix things up a bit.


(http://media.tumblr.com/27d7455f976fa848546cd1b48f02cdc3/tumblr_inline_mrwi4acR2u1qz4rgp.gif)
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: iamSun on May 25, 2015, 04:24:44 am
We have 15 teams for our Russian-based tournament - http://steamcommunity.com/groups/DeAdEQ#announcements/detail/164724171586020726 (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/DeAdEQ#announcements/detail/164724171586020726) and you have 8 (or whatever number of teams) for Reflux tournaement.

Yeah, lets just ignore home/away system and make tourney for 8 teams instead of huge* international cup. (http://i.imgur.com/3cvXfgh.gif)

*by current means
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: ninja on May 25, 2015, 06:54:37 am
We have 15 teams for our Russian-based tournament - [url]http://steamcommunity.com/groups/DeAdEQ#announcements/detail/164724171586020726[/url] ([url]http://steamcommunity.com/groups/DeAdEQ#announcements/detail/164724171586020726[/url]) and you have 8 (or whatever number of teams) for Reflux tournaement.


glhf
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Kekkeri on May 25, 2015, 01:29:26 pm
We have 15 teams for our Russian-based tournament - [url]http://steamcommunity.com/groups/DeAdEQ#announcements/detail/164724171586020726[/url] ([url]http://steamcommunity.com/groups/DeAdEQ#announcements/detail/164724171586020726[/url]) and you have 8 (or whatever number of teams) for Reflux tournaement.

Yeah, lets just ignore home/away system and make tourney for 8 teams instead of huge* international cup. ([url]http://i.imgur.com/3cvXfgh.gif[/url])

*by current means

I would prefer to play in tournament with 8 teams than joining tournament which allows cheaters to join in it.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Jacob on May 25, 2015, 01:36:00 pm
I think the 8 teams has more to do with reflux / custom maps than the fact that I'm not forcing them to play on 200 ping. I haven't heard a single NA team say "darn I was really planning on signing up for ccrt, but then I found out I would be forced to play with 40 ping." But thanks for the feedback!!

edit: Also "omg wtf!?! why don't you make your russian tourney international???"  ::)
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Visor on May 25, 2015, 02:00:09 pm
Because they are using the outdated EQ 1.3, which I believe is easier than Promod by modern standards. That's the only reason why so many teams participate; after the european Fresh tourney, they realized that older, unbalanced configs are, for some, the only way of even having a chance against mighty nerds with 200hr per 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Kekkeri on May 25, 2015, 02:09:47 pm
Well... Maybe in the future when you organize another tournament. You should maybe try qualifier from different regions. so everybody can play with decent ping :)

example.
Regions group stage: eu vs eu / ru vs ru / na vs na / asia vs asia
Regions Playoffs: eu vs eu / ru vs ru / na vs na / asia vs asia (Top 2 teams every regions go to final bracket)
Final Bracket: home/away server or server when players has equal ping.

Edit: To Jacob :)
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: ZerOxShadows on May 25, 2015, 02:23:04 pm
I think the 8 teams has more to do with reflux / custom maps than the fact that I'm not forcing them to play on 200 ping. I haven't heard a single NA team say "darn I was really planning on signing up for ccrt, but then I found out I would be forced to play with 40 ping." But thanks for the feedback!!

edit: Also "omg wtf!?! why don't you make your russian tourney international???"  ::)

I would rather the CCRT have home and away games starting at the qualifying stage in response to attract more international teams. I wouldn't mind playing an a foreign server if it means playing in a tourney with more than 8 teams.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: dec on May 25, 2015, 03:08:01 pm
Well... Maybe in the future when you organize another tournament. You should maybe try qualifier from different regions. so everybody can play with decent ping :)

example.
Regions group stage: eu vs eu / ru vs ru / na vs na / asia vs asia
Regions Playoffs: eu vs eu / ru vs ru / na vs na / asia vs asia (Top 2 teams every regions go to final bracket)
Final Bracket: home/away server or server when players has equal ping.

Edit: To Jacob :)

Keep dreaming Kekkeri. Don't see the Americans adopting this anytime soon.

Edit: To Dragon :)

No Ban Kappa
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: iamSun on May 26, 2015, 04:23:38 am
Jacob,
Quote
I think the 8 teams has more to do with reflux / custom maps than the fact that I'm not forcing them to play on 200 ping.
Nobody wants to play with only red ping when they can play with comfortable green. I had conversation with some of NonStop's players and some other teams - also I try to gather my own tim and already tried USA cup, so believe me - that is like exact reason why european/russian teams are not interested.

Single example of opposite can be Scavenge cup which have only 4 teams now but probably it's because Scavenge is boring mode without tanks, horde and chokepoints.

Quote
I haven't heard a single NA team say "darn I was really planning on signing up for ccrt, but then I found out I would be forced to play with 40 ping." But thanks for the feedback!!
Not sure what you meant by that. Elaborate please. I don't see any sense here since NA teams will have perfect playable ping on CCRT.

Quote
dit: Also "omg wtf!?! why don't you make your russian tourney international???"
Because its not mine tournament and if it was mine (and I would not wanted to make it fastcup) you can be sure I would do it.

Kekkeri, I suggested this idea few weeks ago and noone gave enough fucks I guess.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Sir on May 26, 2015, 05:34:06 am
Jacob, Nobody wants to play with only red ping when they can play with comfortable green. I had conversation with some of NonStop's players and some other teams - also I try to gather my own tim and already tried USA cup, so believe me - that is like exact reason why european/russian teams are not interested.

Using team Non Stop as an example isn't exactly the best thing to do, they're the kind of team that refuses to play on New York servers in a scrim against a team consisting of West Coast players, even though they'd still have better pings than the Americano's.
European teams are almost always forcing American teams to play on EU servers, it's quite sad to see tbh.

I personally would love participating in this cup, but I don't have a team and the euros run in fear when you mention orange ping.
People care too much about their wins and losses in this game, fewer and fewer people play this game because they simply enjoy playing it for fun.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Kekkeri on May 26, 2015, 05:57:00 am
Kekkeri, I suggested this idea few weeks ago and noone gave enough fucks I guess.
[/quote] :(
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Hoernchen on May 26, 2015, 07:55:44 am
I'll play in that cup because of no melee weapons, I just wanna see L4D2 players burn without it ah yeah and custom maps are cool :P
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: 3yebex on May 26, 2015, 12:04:46 pm


Jacob, Nobody wants to play with only red ping when they can play with comfortable green. I had conversation with some of NonStop's players and some other teams - also I try to gather my own tim and already tried USA cup, so believe me - that is like exact reason why european/russian teams are not interested.

European teams are almost always forcing American teams to play on EU servers, it's quite sad to see tbh.
This. As a west-coast US player, I dislike playing on anything that isn't Texas, simply because it offers the best ping available to everyone in the United States. Whenever I'm playing a PUG, if there is a european I'm always one of the first to advocate for a New York server to meet half-way (even though I get orange, if not near red-ping. I can handle anywhere from 30 - 100ms ping).

However, every time I come across a PCW it seems to always be the same with europeans. They pick a server where I get 170ms, and they somewhere around 20ms (yes, 20ms) or 40ms and are completely unwilling to give up some of that precious green ping to meet us half-way in New York (which would give everyone pretty much orange ping with maybe a few green. Even after we play on their home servers, it seems that euro PCW teams always have "something to do" afterwards and won't rematch on a New York server.

This is all made me pretty damn salty towards europeans. IAmSunn is guilty of doing this too.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Jacob on May 26, 2015, 12:48:42 pm
Update: If we don't get >20 teams then the format is going to be changed to a double elim bracket and the prizes are gunna be reduced.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Visor on May 26, 2015, 01:19:16 pm
Iamsun is from Siberia. He pings like shit everywhere, even on Moscow servers.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: KiLLaToY on May 26, 2015, 03:39:06 pm
I'll play in that cup because of no melee weapons, I just wanna see L4D2 players burn without it ah yeah and custom maps are cool :P

AMEN BRO! UPTHUMBS
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: estoopi on May 26, 2015, 04:40:22 pm
We need to remove all pug groups and mumbles and become a team-based community... . too much pug-lyfe...

Will never happen tho  :'(
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Sam on May 26, 2015, 05:36:18 pm
PUGs are the core of every game's competitive community.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Pariah on May 26, 2015, 05:59:55 pm
This. As a west-coast US player, I dislike playing on anything that isn't Texas, simply because it offers the best ping available to everyone in the United States. Whenever I'm playing a PUG, if there is a european I'm always one of the first to advocate for a New York server to meet half-way (even though I get orange, if not near red-ping. I can handle anywhere from 30 - 100ms ping).

However, every time I come across a PCW it seems to always be the same with europeans. They pick a server where I get 170ms, and they somewhere around 20ms (yes, 20ms) or 40ms and are completely unwilling to give up some of that precious green ping to meet us half-way in New York (which would give everyone pretty much orange ping with maybe a few green. Even after we play on their home servers, it seems that euro PCW teams always have "something to do" afterwards and won't rematch on a New York server.

This is all made me pretty damn salty towards europeans. IAmSunn is guilty of doing this too.

Didn't you select a Dallas server during a pug with 3 Europeans just today? Well, obvious lies and bullshit aside, The reason alot of the Europeans are unwilling to play Americans on an American server is for the simple fact that the sense of entitlement is quite annoying. In nearly every cup Euros are forced to play with a disadvantage, Perhaps they just want to give the Americans a taste of their own medicine?

Besides this is a huge generalisation, When my team was active in Pcws the only team that would ever play on Eu was Grizz and Co. Bare in mind this server choice was not even my request, Grizz insisted in order to practice with his team on "high" ping, I'm sure he will verify this. Every other American team would laugh at the suggestion of playing on Eu, or even NY sometimes. So before you generalise and tar everyone with the same brush perhaps you need to broaden your mind a little, I'm assuming it's just lack of experience rather than ignorance that is causing you to type this as you never came across as being an idiot.

I believe I mentioned this before, However just incase you forgot; You're most likely seeking these PCWs on an EU hub which is obviously the reason these players make the assumption you're okay with playing on an EU server. Perhaps in order to avoid confusion and incorrect assumptions about European players as a whole you should post PCW New Jersey server. Your mistake isn't their fault.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Pariah on May 26, 2015, 06:16:31 pm
Using team Non Stop as an example isn't exactly the best thing to do, they're the kind of team that refuses to play on New York servers in a scrim against a team consisting of West Coast players, even though they'd still have better pings than the Americano's.
European teams are almost always forcing American teams to play on EU servers, it's quite sad to see tbh.

I personally would love participating in this cup, but I don't have a team and the euros run in fear when you mention orange ping.
People care too much about their wins and losses in this game, fewer and fewer people play this game because they simply enjoy playing it for fun.

Well this is almost entirely consisted of bullshit, It's true that Non Stop won't play on NY, but that's purely due to their dislike of Americans in general and not fear of the ping. As for the Euros having better ping that Americans on NY, Quite frankly that just isn't reallly possible let alone probable. You of all people should know that. Just like xbye you're guilty of having a very closed minded approach to viewing a situation and are seeing everyone in the same light. Don't contribute to a discussion if you're not capable of offering an unbias opinion.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: 3yebex on May 26, 2015, 07:19:45 pm
Didn't you select a Dallas server during a pug with 3 Europeans just today? Well, obvious lies and bullshit aside,
It was a mistake, and I'm terrible with geography so I just am familiar with New York/Dallas/Chicago/California/Seattle servers. I had no idea that New Jersey had became the new New York. Maybe if you were actually apart of the PUG or didn't just assume horseshit, you'd realize after I was educated about New Jersey that I asked if they wanted to go back to lobby and switch to TFPG NJ. In which both EZ and Danne, said no it's fine.

In nearly every cup Euros are forced to play with a disadvantage, Perhaps they just want to give the Americans a taste of their own medicine?
Sounds like a lot of childish behavior. An eye for an eye will make everyone blind, or in this case make everyone salty. I still advocate for meeting halfway, even when a team (which they haven't...) agreed to rematch us on our server the next day. My teammate was all for picking West-Coast server to give us the best ping and give them a disadvantage, I told him that would be rude and we should at least meet at New York.

Perhaps in order to avoid confusion and incorrect assumptions about European players as a whole you should post PCW New Jersey server. Your mistake isn't their fault.
I guess it's my fault assuming that my opponents would be courteous and meet us half way so that everyone's ping was spread-out/even. A few PCWs I've came across everyone on their team had <40 ms and we all had >150ms. They were insistent that we change servers to a better server (for them...?) and the new server they were sitting around <30ms and we all had >180ms. That sounds pretty trash to me.

You of all people should know that. Just like xbye you're guilty of having a very closed minded approach to viewing a situation and are seeing everyone in the same light.
I've seen people in Europe have better ping to a New Jersey/New York server than me from the West Coast. It's very, very probable. US internet is bad, and is notorious for having really ridiculous routing which creates extra ping. If all wiring was a straight shot to New York, yes US would obviously always have better ping. However, it's not. I have to go around the entire damn country just to reach New York.

Don't contribute to a discussion if you're not capable of offering an unbias opinion.
Pot calling the kettle black...?
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Artifacial on May 26, 2015, 07:27:08 pm
Maybe if you were actually apart of the PUG or didn't just assume horseshit, you'd realize after I was educated about New Jersey that I asked if they wanted to go back to lobby and switch to TFPG NJ. In which both EZ and Danne, said no it's fine.

I thought Pariah was Danne?
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Shoxie on May 26, 2015, 07:29:08 pm
Using team Non Stop as an example isn't exactly the best thing to do, they're the kind of team that refuses to play on New York servers in a scrim against a team consisting of West Coast players, even though they'd still have better pings than the Americano's.
European teams are almost always forcing American teams to play on EU servers, it's quite sad to see tbh.

I personally would love participating in this cup, but I don't have a team and the euros run in fear when you mention orange ping.
People care too much about their wins and losses in this game, fewer and fewer people play this game because they simply enjoy playing it for fun.

Well this is almost entirely consisted of bullshit, It's true that Non Stop won't play on NY, but that's purely due to their dislike of Americans in general and not fear of the ping. As for the Euros having better ping that Americans on NY, Quite frankly that just isn't reallly possible let alone probable. You of all people should know that. Just like xbye you're guilty of having a very closed minded approach to viewing a situation and are seeing everyone in the same light. Don't contribute to a discussion if you're not capable of offering an unbias opinion.


If it was up to me i would never refuse to play on NY server. Idk if my team has dodged games when i haven't been around but that's bs saying we generally "refuse" to play on american servers. When my team started to scrim more against americans, lot of times they were cocky and asked for eu server themselfs. Jota and johzi aren't that familiar playing with high pings and they both have horrible routing to NA servers which usually gives them around 180-200 ping, it has nothing to do with the nationality. Also bigger problem with american servers isn't the ping, its more about the quality of the servers and how well they are optimized. I play pugs/scrims on american servers quite often and never had problem playing with high ping. There is also many other EU players who can handle high ping very well.

In my opinion its way more balanced playing on EU server while people from NA usually have very good pings (85-120) on sir please servers which are very well optimized > has huge impact on hitreg and responsiveness of the server. Rather than playing on non-optimized vps and around 140 pings and even higher ones for people who have shitty routing to the server ( considering some NA players have orange ping on their own server anyways ). Its good to see that sir has opened few NA servers on Seattle, cant wait to test them out.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Pariah on May 26, 2015, 07:44:49 pm
It was a mistake, and I'm terrible with geography so I just am familiar with New York/Dallas/Chicago/California/Seattle servers. I had no idea that New Jersey had became the new New York. Maybe if you were actually apart of the PUG or didn't just assume horseshit, you'd realize after I was educated about New Jersey that I asked if they wanted to go back to lobby and switch to TFPG NJ. In which both EZ and Danne, said no it's fine.
Sounds like a lot of childish behavior. An eye for an eye will make everyone blind, or in this case make everyone salty. I still advocate for meeting halfway, even when a team (which they haven't...) agreed to rematch us on our server the next day. My teammate was all for picking West-Coast server to give us the best ping and give them a disadvantage, I told him that would be rude and we should at least meet at New York.
I guess it's my fault assuming that my opponents would be courteous and meet us half way so that everyone's ping was spread-out/even. A few PCWs I've came across everyone on their team had <40 ms and we all had >150ms. They were insistent that we change servers to a better server (for them...?) and the new server they were sitting around <30ms and we all had >180ms. That sounds pretty trash to me.
I've seen people in Europe have better ping to a New Jersey/New York server than me from the West Coast. It's very, very probable. US internet is bad, and is notorious for having really ridiculous routing which creates extra ping. If all wiring was a straight shot to New York, yes US would obviously always have better ping. However, it's not. I have to go around the entire damn country just to reach New York.
Pot calling the kettle black...?


Listen, It's very simple; If you're scrimming and the method that you're using to find these scrims is to post on an EU competitive hub then you must expect to play on an EU server. This is generally how I've always viewed this matter, When posting on H2K I always expected to play on an American server and thus I didn't bat an eye when this was the case. As for their promise to return the favour and play on an American server tomorrow; I'll not comment on that because I have no information about this. I will say that it's fairly silly for them to make the promise if they will not then honour it. You must also take into account the lack of choice Europeans have when you mentioned your team mate wanting LA server; All of the competitive European servers are located within Either Germany or France. They offer very very similar pings to each other, they most likely didn't switch server in order to make it less playable for your team, To deliberately do that would only be an example of the childish behaviour you alluded to.

As for your suggestion about the even ping, I'll just be as blunt and honest as possible. The truth is that people like having an advantage, this goes for both sides in this story, The Americans do and the Europeans do. That being said, There are those who are more than content with playing on an even playing field and would prefer that, I am assuming that you are one of those people, despite your questionable logic and server choices at times. I would also like to play on an even keel whenever possible, it's not much fun beating on people with ping that strongly inhibits their ability to play. Many of the people you're playing are probably not active competitive players in terms of cups, they probably have little experience in international format matches and it's unlikely they are attempting to be rude or obnoxious about the server choice; they are simply geographically uneducated in regard to the options available, Didn't you admit that you had a similar issue? When playing less experienced players it's just how it works, you have to give a little ground if you want the pcw to be played, unfortunate yes, but that's how it works.

In an ideal world everyone would be willing to find a server with the most even pings possible, I am a strong advocate of doing this whenever possible. In regard to your point about NJ server pings, I've never once played against a team consisting of 4 West Coast players. I'll share with you the closest (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=412465489) that I've ever come to this situation so that you can see for yourself how the pings work out. As you can see, with 3 west coast players and 3 Euros it's very close to being even, but if you throw in any American that isn't more or less crawling up the beach in Cali then the ping disparity is large. If there was enough players in competitive L4D2 for teams to be entirely composed of players from the same regions, then this wouldn't be an issue. This game and it's competitive scene is inherantly unfair, I'm as against it as you are, Just bare in mind that you guys don't have to play with that disadvantage in cups. I'd imagine you'd probably become fairly salty too if your attitude as a result of a few scrims is anything to go by. I believe there are many admins out there who are doing their best to level the playing field as much as they can.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Jacob on May 26, 2015, 07:50:13 pm
There is so much irony in this thread.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Pariah on May 26, 2015, 07:54:46 pm

If it was up to me i would never refuse to play on NY server. Idk if my team has dodged games when i haven't been around but that's bs saying we generally "refuse" to play on american servers. When my team started to scrim more against americans, lot of times they were cocky and asked for eu server themselfs. Jota and johzi aren't that familiar playing with high pings and they both have horrible routing to NA servers which usually gives them around 180-200 ping, it has nothing to do with the nationality. Also bigger problem with american servers isn't the ping, its more about the quality of the servers and how well they are optimized. I play pugs/scrims on american servers quite often and never had problem playing with high ping. There is also many other EU players who can handle high ping very well.

In my opinion its way more balanced playing on EU server while people from NA usually have very good pings (85-120) on sir please servers which are very well optimized > has huge impact on hitreg and responsiveness of the server. Rather than playing on non-optimized vps and around 140 pings and even higher ones for people who have shitty routing to the server ( considering some NA players have orange ping on their own server anyways ). Its good to see that sir has opened few NA servers on Seattle, cant wait to test them out.

As I said, I do not believe the fear of ping to be the reason your team doesn't play on American servers. I sympathise with J & J, even to play against beach dwelling Californians on a New Jersey server would be unfair in terms of ping for them. I also strongly agree with the point about an Eu server often being the most balanced option for the reasons mentioned, this is 100% the case especially when playing american players who are mostly from the Eastern side of the U.S. I hope Sir will offer NJ based servers in the future with his 100 tick optimized brand.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: ZerOxShadows on May 26, 2015, 07:57:23 pm
There is so much irony in this thread.

Fix it, Jacob.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Pariah on May 26, 2015, 07:59:54 pm
I thought Pariah was Danne?

A perfect example of me being just fine with playing on a Dallas during after joining a pug in an American based pug group.  ;D
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Pariah on May 26, 2015, 08:02:56 pm
There is so much irony in this thread.

If you're trying to compare a one off 6-7 round tournament that is "American based" with a whole pug/scrim network that facilitates dozens of games per day then I think you need to take a step back and rethink.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Simon on May 26, 2015, 08:12:48 pm
I wish I had orange ping  :'(
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: relapse on May 26, 2015, 08:29:17 pm
I love this dead games community, how people care so much about this dead game is fascinating and highly entertaining. +rep
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: iamSun on May 26, 2015, 10:11:08 pm
Whatever is good for you people. (http://i.imgur.com/3cvXfgh.gif)
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: SaBle on May 27, 2015, 12:06:11 am
I love this DEAD GAMES community, how people care so much about this DEAD GAME is fascinating and highly entertaining.


(http://img.pandawhale.com/26621-Beating-a-Dead-Horse-gif-M2PU.gif)
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Sir on May 27, 2015, 12:16:12 am
Well this is almost entirely consisted of bullshit, It's true that Non Stop won't play on NY, but that's purely due to their dislike of Americans in general and not fear of the ping. As for the Euros having better ping that Americans on NY, Quite frankly that just isn't reallly possible let alone probable. You of all people should know that. Just like xbye you're guilty of having a very closed minded approach to viewing a situation and are seeing everyone in the same light. Don't contribute to a discussion if you're not capable of offering an unbias opinion.


As said before, that is actually very likely.
The routing in some places is horrible (LA and Dallas (which isn't even West Coast), for example) and players from those regions are likely to get a pretty high ping to NY and sometimes even Chicago)

I don't have a close minded approach, it's just what I'm seeing, if anything you're basing your opinion on your friends. ;D
But you're right, my ping is too high (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=450053558) to NY to even consider playing.
I doubt anyone in the EU has worse routing than Valde.. xD
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: hib on May 27, 2015, 02:03:23 am
Jacob, Nobody wants to play with only red ping when they can play with comfortable green. I had conversation with some of NonStop's players and some other teams - also I try to gather my own tim and already tried USA cup, so believe me - that is like exact reason why european/russian teams are not interested.

Single example of opposite can be Scavenge cup which have only 4 teams now but probably it's because Scavenge is boring mode without tanks, horde and chokepoints.
Not sure what you meant by that. Elaborate please. I don't see any sense here since NA teams will have perfect playable ping on CCRT.
Because its not mine tournament and if it was mine (and I would not wanted to make it fastcup) you can be sure I would do it.

Kekkeri, I suggested this idea few weeks ago and noone gave enough fucks I guess.

Honestly, you sound like a pussy. When there was "European Based" Tournaments my team would sign up with having no chances of playing in a home/away format even if we got to the semis/finals. I myself, am from the west region along side with nnah and bAD. We all play with 190-220 ms in tournaments. High ping isn't too bad unless the server is 100 tick. 100 tick servers + lag makes it nearly impossible to do curve rocking.

I've talked to Dragon and we have come to a consensus that playing home and away games is somewhat unfair when doing international tournaments. When we play "home" servers at New York, and we have 2 people from West (California/Texas), we get around 110 ms to that server, while our east coast members get 34-40 ms. Then, when it comes to play on EU home server, EU people have 30 ping, while our team has 2 yellows (~124-130) and 2 red pings (~180-194).

Sure, having green ping is optimal, but you need to learn how to adapt to higher ping.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: hib on May 27, 2015, 02:26:01 am
Didn't you select a Dallas server during a pug with 3 Europeans just today? Well, obvious lies and bullshit aside, The reason alot of the Europeans are unwilling to play Americans on an American server is for the simple fact that the sense of entitlement is quite annoying. In nearly every cup Euros are forced to play with a disadvantage, Perhaps they just want to give the Americans a taste of their own medicine?

Besides this is a huge generalisation, When my team was active in Pcws the only team that would ever play on Eu was Grizz and Co. Bare in mind this server choice was not even my request, Grizz insisted in order to practice with his team on "high" ping, I'm sure he will verify this. Every other American team would laugh at the suggestion of playing on Eu, or even NY sometimes. So before you generalise and tar everyone with the same brush perhaps you need to broaden your mind a little, I'm assuming it's just lack of experience rather than ignorance that is causing you to type this as you never came across as being an idiot.

I believe I mentioned this before, However just incase you forgot; You're most likely seeking these PCWs on an EU hub which is obviously the reason these players make the assumption you're okay with playing on an EU server. Perhaps in order to avoid confusion and incorrect assumptions about European players as a whole you should post PCW New Jersey server. Your mistake isn't their fault.


Before Grizz was even a good player, I actually started playing EU with nnah, Lust and release. Few people that literally gave no fucks about ping. (Lust and release were orange pings, while me and nnah had red pings).
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=90675560 (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=90675560)  (note: nnah and release ping)

If you want a history run down, EU actually never attended tournaments in NA, until Sir's team started PCW on it, along side Team France (Razzor, Gannon, and etc) and even NikeOn's team.

Shit like this disgusts me. Teams that choose servers to get an edge over another is dishonorable. Example: Vox vs New Face. cooljerk and his team chose a server in Chicago or NY, knowing that my teammates were from Asia to give them higher ping. We asked for a server change and tried to contact an admin to enforce it but they were stubborn to stay on it. We requested a west server, Dallas or Cali, but they wanted the ping advantage and said that they shouldn't cater to non-US teams.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=80768086 (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=80768086) 
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=80768031 (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=80768031)

At the time, our team NF was around equal skill level to my tableflip team even with their high ping difference.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: hib on May 27, 2015, 02:32:13 am
As for the Euros having better ping that Americans on NY, Quite frankly that just isn't reallly possible let alone probable.


If you play vs a team who consists of mainly west players, then you're statement is proven false.
Ex: me, nnah, bAD, TooL, Bravo, fig, acer (any one of those guys put on the same team will have shittier pings compared to EU team who doesn't come from Russia or beyond towards the east)

Also, in addition higher tick server adds +10 ping to foreign players. +10 ping for green people won't make a difference but for people who are in the border or orange-red or just simply red, it makes it harder to do things such as get m2s or curve rocks with tank. In my experience, when playing in Asia with the same ping as I do in EU, I seem to have a better chance over there with 60 tick than i do with 100 tick servers.

As said before, that is actually very likely.
The routing in some places is horrible (LA and Dallas (which isn't even West Coast), for example) and players from those regions are likely to get a pretty high ping to NY and sometimes even Chicago)

I don't have a close minded approach, it's just what I'm seeing, if anything you're basing your opinion on your friends. ;D
But you're right, my ping is too high ([url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=450053558[/url]) to NY to even consider playing.
I doubt anyone in the EU has worse routing than Valde.. xD


Valde <3 - that one day when he said "FUCK playing US server" xD
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=225992939 (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=225992939) 
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Visor on May 27, 2015, 04:09:48 am
Not gonna get involved in this diarrhea talk, just gonna remark 2 things.

hib, learn to connect your award-winning thoughts and ideas in one fucking monolit post. ctrl+a, ctrl+x, ctrl+v.

Second, to you as well. You're making yourself look like an illiterate again, when you imply that tick 100 is worse than tick 60. But I'm done commenting on this, feel free to continue.

Just a few links for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans)
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Dragon on May 27, 2015, 05:42:48 am
I've talked to Dragon and we have come to a consensus that playing home and away games is somewhat unfair when doing international tournaments. When we play "home" servers at New York, and we have 2 people from West (California/Texas), we get around 110 ms to that server, while our east coast members get 34-40 ms. Then, when it comes to play on EU home server, EU people have 30 ping, while our team has 2 yellows (~124-130) and 2 red pings (~180-194).

Yes, you and I talked about this once or twice but just to clarify, I never said flat-out that the entire system is "unfair", what I said to you was that because of the geographical disposition of every player concerned in an international contest, there is always going to be at least a few players who draw the short straw when it comes to ping discrepancies, which you've highlighted with your above example. When it comes to the international spectrum, it is the North American community that sees these ping discrepancies the most simply because of the wide expanse of the continent, with the Russian community a likely 2nd, depending on players connecting either from further east of Moscow, Siberia or former Soviet states in Central Asia like Kazakhstan.

When NV and Velocity played each other in CCT2 for example, they did a home/away system (using NA servers) that was pretty much even on pings except for when dec briefly featured for them. In this instance, home/away was indeed fair for both parties, it was just seemingly unfair for dec the moment he had to sub in for a round or 2. So in most cases, the system can be fair and for the odd few who are connecting from far away, it can seem unfair. But a lot of it depends on how many 'higher ping' players are in a team and how to compensate for it with the home/away system.

I also said to you that if there were systems conceived to the point where it can accommodate for the players with the odd high pings, then it might be a better option than doing home/away. If there was such a system where teams could play just one match on a neutral server with a system in place that does something to compensate for the ping discrepancies, then that might be the option that costs less time and hassle compared to home/away games and provides tournament hosts/admins with the benefit of fewer headaches. But whether or not that happens, until then, playing home/away/neutral is the only option tournament hosts have right now in the interest of making things more fair for both parties regardless of their current locations, if they so choose to exercise that option in the first place.

Also, in addition higher tick server adds +10 ping to foreign players. +10 ping for green people won't make a difference but for people who are in the border or orange-red or just simply red, it makes it harder to do things such as get m2s or curve rocks with tank. In my experience, when playing in Asia with the same ping as I do in EU, I seem to have a better chance over there with 60 tick than i do with 100 tick servers.

I don't know what figures you've been seeing to come to that conclusion, but when Hyper-V had 100 tick servers in North America, I always had lower ping than on 60 tick servers, and I even had this with my old machine which was such a budget-rig that it didn't even touch 60 fps let alone 100. I always consistently get 20-30 less latency than connecting to the same locations on 60 tick, even on NA servers despite technically being a "foreign player" myself in that circumstance. Dallas is a server where I get red ping on 60 tick without fail when pressing TAB, it goes yellow when on 100 tick, not to mention a huge boost in hit reg and far less input delay for a server location that's usually a horrid experience for players connecting from outside of North America due to the routing.

What fps does your machine run the game at? Because if it's below 100 fps, your update rate will be less and your image will appear less smooth, it might also impact your m2 in rare situations. I had the same issues with my previous pc even when playing on 60 tick.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: dec on May 27, 2015, 07:27:36 am
Not gonna get involved in this diarrhea talk, just gonna remark 2 things.

hib, learn to connect your award-winning thoughts and ideas in one fucking monolit post. ctrl+a, ctrl+x, ctrl+v.

Second, to you as well. You're making yourself look like an illiterate again, when you imply that tick 100 is worse than tick 60. But I'm done commenting on this, feel free to continue.

Just a few links for you:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension[/url])
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo[/url])
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance[/url])
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome[/url])
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans[/url])

LMFAO

Alright I can't believe I actually read through this entire thread.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Pariah on May 27, 2015, 10:36:05 am
If you play vs a team who consists of mainly west players, then you're statement is proven false.
Ex: me, nnah, bAD, TooL, Bravo, fig, acer (any one of those guys put on the same team will have shittier pings compared to EU team who doesn't come from Russia or beyond towards the east)

Also, in addition higher tick server adds +10 ping to foreign players. +10 ping for green people won't make a difference but for people who are in the border or orange-red or just simply red, it makes it harder to do things such as get m2s or curve rocks with tank. In my experience, when playing in Asia with the same ping as I do in EU, I seem to have a better chance over there with 60 tick than i do with 100 tick servers.

Valde <3 - that one day when he said "FUCK playing US server" xD
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=225992939[/url] ([url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=225992939[/url])


Hib, You've literally just given photo evidence fo your theory about the west coast players having worse ping being false. I also gave a similar piece of evidence. Now it's time you stop being blind to something that's facefucking you.

As for your screenshots and story about Vox, This is the exact problem that I was confronted with in CCT3, I am with you on that one.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Pariah on May 27, 2015, 10:56:22 am
As said before, that is actually very likely.
The routing in some places is horrible (LA and Dallas (which isn't even West Coast), for example) and players from those regions are likely to get a pretty high ping to NY and sometimes even Chicago)

I don't have a close minded approach, it's just what I'm seeing, if anything you're basing your opinion on your friends. ;D
But you're right, my ping is too high ([url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=450053558[/url]) to NY to even consider playing.
I doubt anyone in the EU has worse routing than Valde.. xD


Americans will never be at a disadvantage when playing on an American server against Europeans. It does not matter if they live in a shack on the beach in Cali, It will not happen. The only possible way it will happen is if you take 4 American gypsys living in the desert of Utah and 4 Euros living in central London with 500/500 internet. Seems very likely indeed.

It isn't what you're seeing let's be honest, you're playing against mix team of EU players after finding the games on your own EU based hub and then crying when they want to play on an Eu server. I don't understand what makes you incapable of understanding that they aren't doing anything wrong. I do not post for scrims on H2k and expect a game on a frankfurt server.

I didn't say anything about your ping being too high to consider playing? What are you talking about?  :-\
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Dusty on May 27, 2015, 11:39:26 am
Quote
Introduction

L4DNation is the largest forum dedicated to competitive L4D discussion. We try our best to make it a welcoming community for players, coders, config makers, casters, and spectators to come to talk about the game and community they love. However, posting on L4DNation is a privilege, not a right. We expect our users to be respectful of one another and their viewpoints.

Arguments and debates are to be expected, but at the end of the day we want L4DNation to be a safe place for people to come and discuss. The staff at L4DNation will not hesitate to ban or remove privileges when posts cross the line from heated discussion into personal attacks.

Should I post this?

If you're about to make a post that you think might be crossing the line, take a step back and re-read what you've written.


If your post insults, demeans, or mocks other people...
If your post responds to and extends stupid, pointless, or toxic conversation even if directed specifically at you...
If you aren't sure that your post does not fall outside of these bounds...

then DO NOT POST.

A good post can express your viewpoint without encroaching on the rights of others. If you're worried about your viewpoint opening you up to attacks from other users, feel free to seek the help of a moderator (ProdigySim, fig newtons, Visor) to try to address those concerns.


Quote
Just a few links for you:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension[/url])
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo[/url])
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance[/url])
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome[/url])
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans[/url])
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: estoopi on May 27, 2015, 11:51:31 am
I hope this tournament works out though.  I enjoy watching Dawkins team scrim on the customs... o:


Instead of arguing, we should try to figure out a way to make the tournament work :x ....


Maybe home/away is a good idea....  or maybe doing the thing where the teams are split based on location and don't actually meet until finals :/
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Pariah on May 27, 2015, 11:58:22 am
I hope this tournament works out though.  I enjoy watching Dawkins team scrim on the customs... o:


Instead of arguing, we should try to figure out a way to make the tournament work :x ....


Maybe home/away is a good idea....  or maybe doing the thing where the teams are split based on location and don't actually meet until finals :/

I'm not so sure that the whole location based scenario would work, especially if you might be catering to teams from Asia and Australia. I can't imagine we'd be seeing a large number from that area, but there's a chance that we'll get at least a couple. How would they be given a fair shake in this location based division?

I like the positivity though! I can see this tourney going really well, especially if the signups keep improving as they have in the past 2 days.  :)
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Hoernchen on May 27, 2015, 12:25:49 pm
It's a NA based tournament get over with it, there is no perfect solution for this ping problem except you make a big ass LAN.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: NF on May 27, 2015, 12:51:32 pm
Not gonna get involved in this diarrhea talk, just gonna remark 2 things.

hib, learn to connect your award-winning thoughts and ideas in one fucking monolit post. ctrl+a, ctrl+x, ctrl+v.

Second, to you as well. You're making yourself look like an illiterate again, when you imply that tick 100 is worse than tick 60. But I'm done commenting on this, feel free to continue.

Just a few links for you:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension[/url])
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo[/url])
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance[/url])
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome[/url])
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans[/url])


Left4Dead Nation admin Visor setting a good example for others as usual.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: estoopi on May 27, 2015, 12:58:25 pm
I'm not so sure that the whole location based scenario would work, especially if you might be catering to teams from Asia and Australia. I can't imagine we'd be seeing a large number from that area, but there's a chance that we'll get at least a couple. How would they be given a fair shake in this location based division?

I like the positivity though! I can see this tourney going really well, especially if the signups keep improving as they have in the past 2 days.  :)

I was thinking of not even trying to cater to all locations.  Only do 2 divisions:

Division A:   Europe, Russia [Matches must be played within Europe]
Division B:   USA, Australia, South America, The rest of Asia  [Matches must be played within the US]

Of course we always feel bad for the small outlier scenes, but...  sometimes you just gotta make compromises...
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Visor on May 27, 2015, 01:12:49 pm
Would any of you actually agree to play with ping equalizing functionality? What I mean by that is if, say, just hypothetically there was a piece of serverside software that is able to bring the pings of all players to a common denominator(towards increase, obviously). So basically every player on the server would ping as much as the highest pinging player.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: estoopi on May 27, 2015, 01:22:19 pm
I would...

.. would just have to prove that it's actually working appropriately i suppose.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Kekkeri on May 27, 2015, 01:23:05 pm
As said before, that is actually very likely.
The routing in some places is horrible (LA and Dallas (which isn't even West Coast), for example) and players from those regions are likely to get a pretty high ping to NY and sometimes even Chicago)

I don't have a close minded approach, it's just what I'm seeing, if anything you're basing your opinion on your friends. ;D
But you're right, my ping is too high ([url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=450053558[/url]) to NY to even consider playing.
I doubt anyone in the EU has worse routing than Valde.. xD
Rip valde ^^
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Rook on May 27, 2015, 01:25:24 pm
Would any of you actually agree to play with ping equalizing functionality? What I mean by that is if, say, just hypothetically there was a piece of serverside software that is able to bring the pings of all players to a common denominator(towards increase, obviously). So basically every player on the server would ping as much as the highest pinging player.
Not at all. And I say that getting almost 80 ping to anywhere inside USA except for Chicago. Ping disadvantage is unfortunate for people, but in what world do we want to make someones connection worse when it doesn't have to be?
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Pariah on May 27, 2015, 01:39:26 pm
I was thinking of not even trying to cater to all locations.  Only do 2 divisions:

Division A:   Europe, Russia [Matches must be played within Europe]
Division B:   USA, Australia, South America, The rest of Asia  [Matches must be played within the US]

Of course we always feel bad for the small outlier scenes, but...  sometimes you just gotta make compromises...

Hmm, Well I mean if that's what you had in mind then really you'd have to consult the Aus/Asians about that. Personally if i was in their shoes I probably wouldn't like that idea considering they'll most likely be in the red ping no matter where in the U.S they play.  :(

The idea would be great if there was enough teams to supply large groups from all areas leading into a H/A format playoffs.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: dawkins on May 27, 2015, 02:55:26 pm
Quote from: Visor
Would any of you actually agree to play with ping equalizing functionality? What I mean by that is if, say, just hypothetically there was a piece of serverside software that is able to bring the pings of all players to a common denominator(towards increase, obviously). So basically every player on the server would ping as much as the highest pinging player.
Not at all. And I say that getting almost 80 ping to anywhere inside USA except for Chicago. Ping disadvantage is unfortunate for people, but in what world do we want to make someones connection worse when it doesn't have to be?
This please.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Pariah on May 27, 2015, 03:00:45 pm
Not at all. And I say that getting almost 80 ping to anywhere inside USA except for Chicago. Ping disadvantage is unfortunate for people, but in what world do we want to make someones connection worse when it doesn't have to be?

This please.

I believe he's offering this as a mechanism to balance pings for international matches more than anything else, Personally I'm on the same page as estoopi as far as that goes. If it can be proven it works well then I see no reason why it wouldn't be a positive tool to have.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: hib on May 27, 2015, 03:05:16 pm
What fps does your machine run the game at? Because if it's below 100 fps, your update rate will be less and your image will appear less smooth, it might also impact your m2 in rare situations. I had the same issues with my previous pc even when playing on 60 tick.

299, when i take screenshots, it will take it at ~249
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: hib on May 27, 2015, 03:06:49 pm
Hib, You've literally just given photo evidence fo your theory about the west coast players having worse ping being false. I also gave a similar piece of evidence. Now it's time you stop being blind to something that's facefucking you.


That server was Chicago, if it was New York, we'd have worst ping.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Pariah on May 27, 2015, 03:13:12 pm
299, when i take screenshots, it will take it at ~249

I believe if you had the chance to play on an optimized 100 tick server based in the U.S you'd change your mind entirely about the merits of 100 tick.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: K0range4 on May 29, 2015, 07:24:55 pm
Exactly what time do sign-ups end? I understand it says May 30th, but is that like 12:00am tonight? Or 11:59pm May 30th?
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: ZerOxShadows on May 29, 2015, 09:02:28 pm
Not sure what difference a minute makes but I'm pretty sure 12 AM May 30th.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Jacob on May 29, 2015, 09:33:54 pm
Not sure what difference a minute makes but I'm pretty sure 12 AM May 30th.

The 2 examples he gave were 23 hours and 59 minutes apart from each other. Signs up will end tomorrow night at midnight, not tonight
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Sam on May 30, 2015, 03:15:55 am
I read some of these posts.

Visor's suggestion of creating a program that chooses servers of the most equally distributed ping would solve nothing. What I mean is that unless matches were being played in some remote area, particular American and European teams would still have severe ping discrepancies.

Some best coast players ping worse to ny servers than western European players and yet some other central or eastern European players ping far worse than best coast players. This is kind of an irrefutable fact. It is this fact that makes the situation difficult. However if we are talking what server is going to be on average the best for everyone involved, it is almost always going to be ny.

There are not really enough teams to create separate divisions based on local. I mean you could I guess host a small qualifier and take the best team from Europe and have them compete using a home/away system. I think that is basically what you are suggesting?

There is really no reason a home/away system shouldnt work. I think it is just a combination of being an admins nightmare with some teams being douches and trying to fuck over the other team.

True 100 tick servers are vastly superior to true 60 tick servers. However with the tick rate enabler along with probably properties of the game certain issues arise. For example in my experience, bunny hopping should be easier on a higher tick rate. In l4d2 it is harder. Why???

In l4d2 ping really isnt that big an issue. Shooting is all hitscan. If you shoot something the bullets are going to land. The only issue that arises is with collision. Collision hitboxes get all screwed up and with faster moving objects like hunters and rocks (which actually aren't even hitscanned) things can become more difficult. You get pounced from really far away... etc. Playing on higher ping is more difficult for sure, but if you are good at shooting stuff, its not that bad.

I don't think that whoever originally complained about the lacking of a home/away system has any right to rise complaint. The tournament host shouldn't feel obliged to cater to every region. They can do whatever the fuck they want.

I also liked how visor basically called hib an illiterate, down syndrome, Mexican.

Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Sir on May 30, 2015, 04:35:05 am
I read some of these posts.

Visor's suggestion of creating a program that chooses servers of the most equally distributed ping would solve nothing. What I mean is that unless matches were being played in some remote area, particular American and European teams would still have severe ping discrepancies.


You understood his post wrong.
He's talking about increasing player's ping by a function, not a server location, which means that everyone would have the same ping.
Call it fakelag, if you wish.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Battle on May 30, 2015, 05:33:24 am
You understood his post wrong.
He's talking about increasing player's ping by a function, not a server location, which means that everyone would have the same ping.
Call it fakelag, if you wish.

Might be worth looking into the NEWNET sourcecode, its primative as hell im sure as its for UT99, it does what visor suggests but in the reverse it evens the playing field a it in regards to ping, but rather than manipulation of higher ping it works in the opposite, L4D has far more variables to consider though over simply point n click
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Sir on May 30, 2015, 08:12:41 am
Might be worth looking into the NEWNET sourcecode, its primative as hell im sure as its for UT99, it does what visor suggests but in the reverse it evens the playing field a it in regards to ping, but rather than manipulation of higher ping it works in the opposite, L4D has far more variables to consider though over simply point n click

Source already has the code built-in to do what Visor says. :)
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Sam on May 30, 2015, 10:20:46 am
You understood his post wrong.
He's talking about increasing player's ping by a function, not a server location, which means that everyone would have the same ping.
Call it fakelag, if you wish.

My mistake. Might be worth a shot.

Don't know much about it but couldn't this cause packet loss?
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Kissme on May 30, 2015, 11:03:16 am
My mistake. Might be worth a shot.

Don't know much about it but couldn't this cause packet loss?
I am also wondering if the fake ping would affect spectators/casters on the server.  I ask because I know that from covering matches in Eastern Europe and Russia, you can stutter, even as a spectator in free roam if your ping is high enough.

Just wondering if it's something that would also affect cameramen in essence.
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: 3yebex on May 30, 2015, 11:16:32 am
Net_fakelag is a bit of a tricky cvar. I use net_fakelag 32 becauseit gives me about 60-90ms on my local server. I don't really know how to efficiently control it. I do know that it does work though, but maybe better than actual ping to the server.

I am also wondering if the fake ping would affect spectators/casters on the server.  I ask because I know that from covering matches in Eastern Europe and Russia, you can stutter, even as a spectator in free roam if your ping is high enough.

Just wondering if it's something that would also affect cameramen in essence.

I'm going to say that it probably does not. Fake ping to the server I would imagine just causes the server to delay what actions it probably receives from you, as long as you got a good connection (IE. local host) you wouldn't have any dropped/ruined packets. There is however, a fake packetloss cvar. Now that, will fuck you up.

I believe if you had the chance to play on an optimized 100 tick server based in the U.S you'd change your mind entirely about the merits of 100 tick.
With how reliant some of the SI are with having to use time-based exploits to help even the playing field, I would not be looking forward having US-based servers with this. 30 tick was fine enough for L4D2 except during excessive horde events maybe (Looking at you... Deathtoll 4/Dead Air 4.) and 60 tick sure as hell has reduced the amount of bhopping  boomers/jockies and jumprocking tanks that I've seen.

Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Luckylock on May 31, 2015, 10:41:56 am
It would be interesting to have matches played with all people on equal ping.

Anyway, gamemaps was a pain in the ass to download from... I compressed all the maps into a zip folder and uploaded it to google drive for the lazy people.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByqWgPuEHJXWS2ZFemFzZmFtQnc/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByqWgPuEHJXWS2ZFemFzZmFtQnc/view?usp=sharing)
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: ElusivΣ on May 31, 2015, 01:57:38 pm
It would be interesting to have matches played with all people on equal ping.

Anyway, gamemaps was a pain in the ass to download from... I compressed all the maps into a zip folder and uploaded it to google drive for the lazy people.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByqWgPuEHJXWS2ZFemFzZmFtQnc/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByqWgPuEHJXWS2ZFemFzZmFtQnc/view?usp=sharing)

thx bud
Title: Re: Announcing CCR²T
Post by: Dusty on May 31, 2015, 05:37:15 pm
There's also sir's FTP

ftp://178.33.28.185/CustomCampaigns// (http://ftp://178.33.28.185/CustomCampaigns//)

It would be nice to sticky these.